Tere-stone shower

[S.Joisey]

I'n installing a Tere-stone shower enclosure

Tere-stone is a composite material - reminds me of Corian though it seems harder.

This installation has a few cutouts - for soap cup, shampoo shelf, and window.

Installation instructions call for tere-stone siliconed to water resistant drywall. Soap and shampoo shelves have approx 1" overlap.
The window kit consists of jambs that are butted to the panel. No overlap.

I'm thinking "Really"? What if there is a leak?

I'm esp concerned about the window.

I emailed Tere-stone. They said - yes, the silicone joint is adequate- use it over w.r. drywall.

I suggested Redgarding backerboard. They said "It will take much longer for the silicone to set since it needs moisture to cure."

Anyone have experience with this type of installation?

Normally, I follow manufacturer's instructions. But I'm not sure about this one.

[dgbldr]

Re: Tere-stone shower

I suggested Redgarding backerboard. They said "It will take much longer for the silicone to set since it needs moisture to cure."

That advice makes no sense and I would avoid the product altogether. But if you must, yes I would absolutely do Hardi and Redgard.

[S.Joisey]

Re: Tere-stone shower

Problem as I see it is will the silicone cure between the Tere-stone and the Redgard.

If Redgarded (or other moisture barrier), manufacturer wants the terestone blocked in place 24 hrs to allow silicone to cure.

In my experience, I've found silicone uncured days after application when it was not able to breath. For instance, in a tub door rail that had to be re-adjusted.

[MarkMc]

Re: Tere-stone shower

Which part makes no sense?

Backerboard is considered a suitable substrate/underlayment. Applying redgard would/could retard (moisture) curing to some extent, whether that's a significant issue would depend on silicone used and desired install speed. If done carefully there's potential for 3 layers of sealant at joint locations, redgard would be the 4th. Is that level of redundancy needed?

What is their warranty on your installation? Last one I dug into basically only warranted that the sealant would stick to their product (used as directed) and did not cover sealant failure in regards to joint integrity or incompatibility issues with substrate since they did not make or supply those products.

[MarkMc]

Re: Tere-stone shower

If Redgarded (or other moisture barrier), manufacturer wants the terestone blocked in place 24 hrs to allow silicone to cure.

Most neutral cure and slow cure RTV need about a week to achieve a full cure. It may be enough after 6 hrs 24 hrs to hold in a given application but....

[S.Joisey]

Re: Tere-stone shower

Just checked installation instructions for other solid surface materials.

Corian and Swanstone both spec w. r. drywall as OK for their shower installations.

Even Bob Villa installs cultured marble surrounds on bare drywall.

Just silicone in the corners before the install.

No mention of any water resistant membrane.

I'm wondering if anyone here has experience installing solid surface showers.

[dgbldr]

Re: Tere-stone shower

IF nothing ever leaks, drywall is fine. But that's a big IF. And if this thing will never leak, why do they need water-resistant drywall? :)

In a shower, I never depend on caulk to keep water out of where I don't want it. Period.

Not sure where Mark got his multiple redundancy, perhaps a sketch is in order.

[m beezo]

Re: Tere-stone shower

I have installed solid surface showers before. I usually go over cement board or over Deshield. One of the issues with any of the products I use is color transfer thru some colors. Some of the thinner solid surface materials talk about using a primer in a similar color as what the solid surface material is. So the green does not change to color of the white surface. So if you were doing the Red gaurd you might see it come thru the surface.

As far as it leaking thru you have a minimum number of places for it to leak thru. There are 2 long corner joints, the area at the tub deck. This application talks about the window area. When I have windows in the shower I always make sure that the window sill is sloped into the shower, there is a lip instead of the sill being installed flush. cuts are made as tight as possible, good caulk applied. And for caulk, most of the companies I have dealt with want you to use their brand of caulk-again a warranty issue.

You could try a notice to Tom Bader, who I am surprised has not chimed in. I know he has installed solid surface showers, has posted some pictures before.

[LIHR50]

Re: Tere-stone shower

I read their installation instructions and silicone (Acetoxy Curing) is relied on for all waterproofing and securing.

I've done my share of solid surface panel shower walls. I follow manufactures instructions but add flashing to all inside corners. One manufacture (out of business now) supplied metal flashing, but I've used kerdi and kerdi band and have used window flashing.

It's the last level of defense when the silicone fails. Water will stop at the flashing and hopefully drain down to the tub/shower floor. We are talking inside corners here.

I don't recommend moisture resistant gypsum board, although most all manufactures approve it for their products.

[MarkMc]

Re: Tere-stone shower

.. why do they need water-resistant drywall? :)



Not sure where Mark got his multiple redundancy, perhaps a sketch is in order.

On more than one occasion I have noticed that the material that is behind installations like this extend above and beyond, and or code requirements that MR is the minimum in said location. Maybe it's just me.

Unless this material is crack and peel, it needs a dab of silicone on the wall to hold it in place, maybe more, and those dabs with minimal effort could be made certain to align with seams. Joint filling by their spec in a quick glance was a two step/two product process. In my book that adds up to three. Is that math different in MI? Are primer and two top coats of paint considered one?

If SJ is that worried he'd probably be best served applying a 2-3" wide redgard seam backing. The only disadvantage of going the full redgard is added time (apply and cure), added costs and possible drop of manu's warranty support - one of his posts seemed touchy on time but I may of misread that concern; cost may not be a concern and he may be happy with the addition of bearing the warranty. With attention to detail either way should work fine. I've seen enough failures in redgard applications to appreciate that most of them were owing to (mostly need for speed) poor attention most often in corners - redgard failed but it wasn't a failure of redgard.

[m beezo]

Re: Tere-stone shower

One thing that comes to my mind on the water sealing of the corners is how long does a good grade of silicone last and keep water out? I am asking because I have installed then and taken then out. Many of the ones I have taken out have had a life of maybe 10 to 12 years and by that time they are just looking worn and haggard. I have torn out several and have yet to see bad damage from any water leak. Most of what I have seen is minor damage and I am talking minor damage. If I could have gotten the stuff off the drywall without damage I could have gone over the drywall again.

[S.Joisey]

Re: Tere-stone shower

One thing that comes to my mind on the water sealing of the corners is how long does a good grade of silicone last and keep water out? I am asking because I have installed then and taken then out. Many of the ones I have taken out have had a life of maybe 10 to 12 years and by that time they are just looking worn and haggard. I have torn out several and have yet to see bad damage from any water leak. Most of what I have seen is minor damage and I am talking minor damage. If I could have gotten the stuff off the drywall without damage I could have gone over the drywall again.

I thought the same thing when I demo'ed the old acrylic shower on this job. There was't any sign of water intrusion. And the detail around the window wasn't as well thought out as this new surround.

I ended up going with the manufacturer's instructions - w.r. drywall.

Manufacturer said the silicone will take longer to dry if I use backerboard, so I just used backerboard around the window where I thought it would be to my advantage.

I didn't want to risk using Redgard as I wasn't sure what it would do to curing time. As sort of a test, I tried siliconing two pieces of flashing membrane together. After 24 hours, the silicone was still uncured. Looks like it needs to breathe to cure. Who knows how long it would have taken to cure with Redgard.

[m beezo]

Re: Tere-stone shower

I am glad to hear that you and I have had some of the same observations about the showers. I do not know of but one or two in my nearly 30 years in business that had to have the shower removed because the water damage was so extensive behind the shower tile or solid surface. Most were removed and replaced because of wear and tear and being outdated.

Did the manufacturer have a silicone that they provided for you? Most of the ones I have installed have a preferred brand or two and I usually just buy what they provide when we order the walls. They will have the color match that you are not going to find at most big box stores.

Your note about the silicone not being cured after 24 hours makes me wonder about the new silicones that are being sold as "shower ready in 30 minutes". I know some sort of different formula but I think I will have to run a test on the stuff to see if I can really believe them. Have a shower redo coming up next month.

[S.Joisey]

Re: Tere-stone shower

The manufacturer sent along the silicone adhesive and also the color matched silicone.

I've also wondered about the shower ready silicone. I'm not familiar with the formulation or if it is a durable as the standard formulation.

I've used it once or twice but always suggested the owners to let it set overnight "just to be sure".

By the way, I appreciate everyone chiming in on this thread. It helped me think things through.