Smart Side siding

[Randy Bush]

Have any of you guys used Smart Side siding by LP . If so what was your thoughts on the stuff. Went to a product demo this morning on it. Looked ok does lay down tight if nailed right.

[MKnAs Dad]

Re: Smart Side siding

I have used a few years ago. It expands/contracts alot. It is easier to work with than FC siding since it is just cutting wood. The biggest benefit is that it comes in longer lengths than FC. The chips are individually treated before being molded to shape. That being said, when I did my parents house two years ago, I went with Hardi Board over LP SmartSide or Certinteed WeatherBoard for a few different rreasons. HB has more Ash in it than WB. HB is more fire retardant than SS. HB has the best warranty on it, as long as you get the factory applied finish on it. HB's warranty is not prorated like the others and includes labor going by memory.
But realistically, the biggest reason why I didn't even consider nor would I consider SS over say HB, was about 5 years ago, I was doing a project with the company I used to work for and as we were taking the siding out of the packaging and the finish was coming off. The boards were put on a pallet from the factory and between each layer, they put a protective foam that was about 1/16" thick. The paint was coming right off so we called Certainteed about it. They came out and checked it out and even pulled pieces out and had the exact thing happen when they pulled pieces out. Their answer to it was give us the paint to touch it up!! How does that sound for a warranty?? Nevermind the fact that wherever we would touch up, you could see it, but it was on the installers dime to repair the faulty finish on the whole project.
I have heard that HB will pay for everything to be refinished, labor and materials. But that being said, if you get the HB in a custom color, it is sent to a different company after it leaves the factory. If there is any issues with the finish, they can always blame it on improper finishing techniques.

Just my $.02. I would only go with HB.

[gburnet]

Re: Smart Side siding

In the interest of full disclosure, a company I own has been involved with LP's SmartSide installer training program since last summer.

Now that the disclosure is out of the way, I've also installed a bit of the product over the years on our jobs. I like the fact the material is 16' in length & the resulting seams are minimal. It also doesn't require the extreme care in handling that FC does, nor does it require the greater clearances above roofs (it's 1" for SS & at least 2" for most, if not all, FC).

It does NOT expand & contract quite a bit. It does typically expand initially, as it comes out the mill at around a 4% MC & will acclimate to the atmospheric conditions of a jobsite. One needs to plan for this expansion, but it's pretty easy to do. LP specs a 3/16" gap for a 16' length of material, whether it's their trim or siding. Once the material reaches its equilibrium MC, it's quite stable.

As with any wood or FC siding material, all cut edges must be sealed, whether with paint or sealant. Again, this is simple enough to do & we've found that the material takes paint very well.

It's a very durable product & extremely straightforward to install. In addition, LP is offering quite a bit of support to end users via their Preferred Installer Program. Feel free to PM me if you want any other details.

[ThingOfBeauty]

Re: Smart Side siding

If you search around the JLC archives you'll find a thread where an overeager LP salesguy jumps into a hardiplank thread and starts trashing fiber cement.
(It was when the internet was a young adolescent and I forgive him, he probably knows better by now.)
When I ridiculed LP for producing the original OSB siding that fell apart and grew mushrooms on it, and was removed under a huge class-action settlement, he said Smart Side was different and better, and mentioned the name of an engineering professor who tested it in Hawaii and Michigan.
I ended up calling that professor and he said the three or five years of testing (don't remember) indicated it was holding up very well. If things are going to fall apart quickly, they do so even quicker in the rainforest in Hawaii. Michigan's winters are also a good test, according to this building scientist.
Now, he was being paid by LP to test the stuff but he took the time to chat with me and seemed to be an ordinary, geeky scientist who didn't have much invested in whether this product worked or not, and he was impressed with it.
Never used it and probably wouldn't due to the poor impression LP made by putting a defective product on the market the first time, but from what I have heard this stuff is probably OK.

[Randy Bush]

Re: Smart Side siding

In the interest of full disclosure, a company I own has been involved with LP's SmartSide installer training program since last summer.

Now that the disclosure is out of the way, I've also installed a bit of the product over the years on our jobs. I like the fact the material is 16' in length & the resulting seams are minimal. It also doesn't require the extreme care in handling that FC does, nor does it require the greater clearances above roofs (it's 1" for SS & at least 2" for most, if not all, FC).

It does NOT expand & contract quite a bit. It does typically expand initially, as it comes out the mill at around a 4% MC & will acclimate to the atmospheric conditions of a jobsite. One needs to plan for this expansion, but it's pretty easy to do. LP specs a 3/16" gap for a 16' length of material, whether it's their trim or siding. Once the material reaches its equilibrium MC, it's quite stable.

As with any wood or FC siding material, all cut edges must be sealed, whether with paint or sealant. Again, this is simple enough to do & we've found that the material takes paint very well.

It's a very durable product & extremely straightforward to install. In addition, LP is offering quite a bit of support to end users via their Preferred Installer Program. Feel free to PM me if you want any other details.

Greg,

Thanks for the input. When I was talking to the sales rep this morning I asked about end painting , knowing what I do about cuts needing painting , which nobody in this area that I know does which I do believe should be done, but his answer was that it doesn't need painting because of the way it is made, Ok I guess we will see what it looks like in x number of years. Also he was recommending the same corners and butt joints that Canxcel , sp? Canada made Colorlock, uses. It sounds like the Preferred Installer Program would be worth the time if one is going to put it on. The guy didn't sound very positive on the finish of it either. Saying it damaged easy. One thing I have seen with stuff like this it that it is important to keep it dry while installing it, let it get wet that is when you see the problems.

[Mark Parlee]

Re: Smart Side siding

Randy
If you do a thread search you will see my evolution into SS
If I were building a new home I would definitely use SmartSide over any fibercement board product.
The fibercement is very fragile in its consistency. I look at three jobs per week in the summer that have problems on the consulting end of my business. Granted these are from poor workmanship and not following the directions.
If you were to install a siding board too close to the roof plane of most of the sidings we have used over the years, what material do you think would have issues first?

The original LP that failed was innerseal. LP had a few generations of the product with the first being the worst and the last being not so bad; It still has some problems though.

I was in the original class action against LP and it really left a bad taste. I had been encouraged to give it a try by Bill Robinson, our exterior details moderator and indirectly by Steve Easley, I would not.
That is until I had a couple of places on my own home where the FC was breaking down; It was a weird detail that could be attributed to needing a little better installation detailing but nonetheless it made me willing to listen. LP flew me up yo their mill and gave me my own personal tour. I listened to their science behind the way they produce their SmartSide and realized why some of our top building scientist view the SS as a good product.
I have been using it for a while now and do not miss the hoops we had to jump through to get a good FC application nor the health risk of the dust that is produced when cutting it. It is good to once again not to have to be so careful about overdriven nails as it is a lot tougher product that does not allow this problem so readily.
There are a lot of other things I like about the product as well.
one that I do not like is the 1" corners need to be built out 1/4" in order to get a proper sealant joint detail. This is not a concern for as lot of people I see installing the siding but it is an issue that needs to be addressed. If they made 1-1/4" corner trims it would be so much better.

[Allan Edwards]

Re: Smart Side siding

Mark

I see you mentioned Steve Easley, I've heard him speak a few times and he seems very knowledgeable about Building Science. Wondered what your dealings with him might have been.

[Mark Parlee]

Re: Smart Side siding

Allan

He is very knowledgeable.
I have a lot of contacts that I have developed over my time in consulting; he is a distant contact. I have talked to him a few times and had a few email conversations with him. I first was introduced to him by Bob Givens, the DryFlekt kick out guy. I had sent a few pictures to Bob regarding the methods and details the I use to handle moisture intrusion prone areas on the exterior of the building envelope. He sent these to Steve And i was to produce a CD for him to use at some of his talks.
I still need to do that.
Hopefully next time he is through my state I can give it to him personally. It is an ever expanding work in progress.
I missed him last time he was through but it will be good to meet him next time.

[Tim Uhler]

Re: Smart Side siding

Mark,

Are you using the 7/16" or 3/8" lap?


We've used LP on 3 houses now (one being the house we are siding) and I love the install. One thing I've noticed is that the 3/8" lap needs more work to keep it straight. But its not much more work, and more than worth it.

We paint the cut ends of all the trim with Killz and don't find that this takes much time at all. Homeowners seem to like the look. Hardi just looks cheap when I look at it now.

[Mark Parlee]

Re: Smart Side siding

Tim
We are using the 3/8"
We are adding the 1/4" strip to the corners to bring them out so we can get a properly detailed sealant thickness at the lap; this is a pain.
It's nice to get back to a wood blade and not worry about the dust. Also the nail gun pressure is not a big deal anymore.

When you say more work to keep it straight what are you referring to.

I am using joint splicers on the butts; what are you doing, sealant?
If so what brand?

[Tim Uhler]

Re: Smart Side siding

Tim
We are using the 3/8"
We are adding the 1/4" strip to the corners to bring them out so we can get a properly detailed sealant thickness at the lap; this is a pain.
It's nice to get back to a wood blade and not worry about the dust. Also the nail gun pressure is not a big deal anymore.

When you say more work to keep it straight what are you referring to.

I am using joint splicers on the butts; what are you doing, sealant?
If so what brand?

What we found on this house is that if we snap a line and we nail it to the line on each end, the middle can have a 1/2" crown or sag. So what we do is nail it on one end, then 1/3 then 2/3 then the very end.

Not all are this way, but enough that we pay a lot of attention to each course. Some are dead straight others seem to need some persuasion (Jane Austin reference!)

I'm putting slip sheets behind the field joints and then we use Quad.

We do put a piece of SS behind belly bands and the head piece of window trim (if that is the look we are going for) to pack it out. We were using scrap sheathing and ripping it with the DeWalt wormdrive+ guide, but then realized it works better with the metal we buy to pack it out with the 3/8".

I'll upoad some pictures tonight of the job we are on.

[Mark Parlee]

Re: Smart Side siding

I have seen the same issues with the crowning of the material.

i am not yet comfortable with going back to the sealant style butt joints so we are back to using the splicers.
I know the product expands as it acclimates on the jobsite; it is very dried down at production.
What gap are you leaving to fill with sealant. I would love to get back to the flashed non sealant joint we used with the FC product.

[Tim Uhler]

Re: Smart Side siding

I have seen the same issues with the crowning of the material.

i am not yet comfortable with going back to the sealant style butt joints so we are back to using the splicers.
I know the product expands as it acclimates on the jobsite; it is very dried down at production.
What gap are you leaving to fill with sealant. I would love to get back to the flashed non sealant joint we used with the FC product.

We leave 3/16" gaps. What I do is rip some peices of 3/16" 2x and keep it in my pouch and then use that to gap and take numbers. We haven't done that on this job because we can eyeball it, but the previous 2 jobs we did because we were getting used to this siding again and didn't want there to be any problems.

Can you send me a link to the splicers? I haven't seen them.

[Mark Parlee]

Re: Smart Side siding

http://www.simplicitytool.com.previe...T%20COVERS.pdf

This is all I can find
The covers I use are similar but have a metal on the back side as well that captures the edge.
I would be curious to know if over time the siding with the sealant expands and you get a squeeze bubble or if it shrinks the sealant releases on one side of the joint. This was the big problem with the FC joints of this style. The dynamic movement in the joint exceeded the sealants parameters and we would see adhesive failure. This in turn would allow moisture entrapment at the joints and would cause freeze spall at the joint edge.