Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

[Cornerstone Tim]

In November I applied some caulking around some windows I installed in an addition. Prior to this job I have been using Phenoseal, but shame on me I picked up a case of DAP for this particular job. I was out there today and much to my horror almost every one of my caulk seams has shrunk up and pulled away from the windows or trim (Vinyl and AZEK).

Needless to say I am not a happy camper. Today was a "warm" 47 degrees, but who knows when it will warm up enough to allow me to redo this mess. DAP claims to have a 35 year guarantee, and the tubes say to install above 42 degrees (it was in the 60's when I originally applied it).

I was just wondering what some others use...especially here in the "snow belt".

[kreg McMahon]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

Tim,

First off it is spelled caulk... at first I was wondering what you were doing putting chalk around the windows? lol.

the guarantees only give you back your money that you paid... what a guarantee. Did the caulk actually shrink or did the window frame move a bit? even though the trim is azteck if it was attached to wood, that could have caused it to move.

thats my 2 cents worth

[carpenter]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

I just attended a Pella seminar last week where one of the isses they addressed was proper caulking. According to these experts, it is best to start with approx. 3/8" gap. Insert a backing rod, apply caulk and tool it. The result is a concave surface on each side (hour glass shape) that better resists the pulling of constant expansion and contraction associated with vinyl products.

I'm curious where your caulk failed. If it pulled from either side it may be an adhesion failure. Otherwise, the above method is supposed to be the cure.

We use DAP fairly often, especially the painters caulk for interior use. The main item I look for is at least a 35 year warranty. I'm not stuck on any paticular brand myself. I do believe however, if I can get my hands on enough duct tape and silicone, I can get a chevy to the moon.

[carpenter]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

Kreg,

I'm not that familar with Azek, only used it once. You made me wonder though, I think Azek is a PVC product. That would make me think that it would move quite a bit with tempature swings. Your post suggests the opposite. What do I need to know?

[Cornerstone Tim]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

Darn that spell check!

I have used DAP in Interior applications for years with no problems.
I would say that the gaps that failed were between 1/8th and a 1/4.
This was applied at what I would say is the worst time of the year. The temperature dropped probably 40 degrees within two weeks. Normally I apply a bead and then run my fat little finger over it leaving it slightly concave. The crew I worked with in California said I had "fingers made for caulking".

I'm stumped. I just returned from checking another job I did with the same product about the same time, and no problems.

I was just inquiring if someone had a product they prefered over what I used.

[biljac]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

We use only urethane sealants, with a preference on the company Sonneborn, using their one part NP1. 99% of our installs are retrofit into masonry openings.

[Woodtick]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

Tim,
I've had pretty good success with this one.I have a test bead on an unpainted piece of plywood hanging by my shop for over 3 yrs and it still looks great.
Rich


http://www.stickwithpl.com/Products....Siding-Sealant

[Mark Parlee]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

No offense but “Shame on you” The caulk more than likely did not shrink and pull away.
The material moved and the caulk did not have the capability to move that far.
If you caulk a joint that is 1/8” wide and the material moves 1/8” that is 100% joint movement. There are not many “caulks “ that can perform to that range of movement and DAP sure isn’t one of them.
The guarantee of 35 years: if you have any problems with this caulk in 35 years just cut off the UPC off the tube and provide the receipt and we will send you a replacement tube to use to your hearts content
I use urethane such as Vulkem, NP1, or Ultra as Biljac suggested

Biljac
For caulking around an opening, brick to window. I use Sonneborn Ultra. It is formulated to resist UV and has antiyellowing agents, this eliminates the need to paint it to protect the caulk

Carpenter
All caulk should be tooled to force it in the joint to some extent. If you hold the tip right, and cut it properly, a lot of the tooling will be done as you apply it.
3/8” joint is about right if you figure a 1/8” movement, that is what you will see as a minimum in most areas on a residential building where siding meets corner or window, then you have the 30% range of joint movement that most urethanes perform to, plus or minus.
A good rule of thumb is the surface of the caulk should be at least twice as wide as it is deep.
Dap is a reasonable painters caulk but I would not use it in an exterior siding application

I could go on for quite a while here. If you get the tech sheets for vulkem or sonneborn they will tell a lot also if you go look at some good commercial caulking applications and talk to some of the guys that do it all day every day they can really shed some light on the subject

Mark

Kreg
Azek not azteck. :)

Please don’t check my spelling

[phillip]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

pl works just like np
both great products








ps dont check my grammer or spelling
why cant my fingers type as fast as my brain thinks?

[biljac]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

For caulking around an opening, brick to window. I use Sonneborn Ultra. It is formulated to resist UV and has antiyellowing agents, this eliminates the need to paint it to protect the caulk

Mark,

Are you refering to the "Ultra White"? We were using this when we used white clad windows but most of our installs get painted black for historical reasons. We had gotten quite a few complaints when using the ultra though, mostly because of the odor (xylene I believe) of the anti-yellowing agents. Also we saw some leeching of the color of the brownstone into the ultra if the brownstone was refinished.

[kreg McMahon]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

Kreg
Azek not azteck. :)

Mark,

thank you but the stuff I bought came from mexico that's why I called it azteck......LOL (just kidding).

[Mark Parlee]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

Biljac
I am referring to Ultra by Sonneborn, it has improved properties over NP1
www.chemrex.com/documents/ult_tdg.PDF

Kreg
I was going to pursue that line in my last post but didn’t, now you beat me to it

Mark

[biljac]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

Thanks Mark,

I'm going to call my supplier tommorow.

Bill

[tom dickey]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

first just to confirm it azek will move with temp.the shorter the peice the less it will move,second we have been using sidewinder caulk it is very flexable and sticks great and can be aplied as cold as you are willing to work.

tom d

[Sweep8]

Re: Exterior Chalk...What Brand do you use????

Brand is important but not as important as the type of caulk/sealant you select.

The attached PDF shows the properties of the most common sealants. The chart was prepared for marine use but it is still useful.

The choices are not easy; there is no perfect sealant. I always avoid acrylic for exterior use including any acrylic mixes such as silicone/acyrlic. All tests I have seen rate them poorly.

Dap does not reveal the composition of its Sidewinder sealant on its web site or in its advertising except to say it is an advanced polymer formula. Elsewhere, others mention that it contains silicone or rubber, so I would assume it is one of the endless varieties of silicone/acrylic mixes that seem to arrive on the market every month. Be very careful about believing what the manufacturer says about this material — find an independent test before using it.

The best elastomeric raw materials are expensive therefore the cheaper sealants are often of lower quality, loose their flexibility faster and fail much sooner.

Here is Kolbe & Kolbe's recomendations for sealant in window installation:
"Acrylic -(Latex & solvent based) are not recommended by Kolbe and Kolbe since they have poor movement rating, often short life expectancy and become very stiff and brittle with age.
[Modified] Silicone sealants (acrylic, latex) have only a little silicone added, and usually retain most of the disadvantages of latex."
http://www.kolbe-kolbe.com/files/ins...nformation.pdf