design build question

[m beezo]

I have heard the term design/build for years but never really gave it much thought until I go on this job. I am doing some work for another contractor who is doing an office build out. A computer company who needs more offices, bigger computer/IT room, bigger break room, storage closets. There is a set of drawings that are all stamped and approved by the city building department. And approved by the company that is moving into the space.

My question is one of how much design they can do on the fly without needing to do a revised set of drawings. We are not changing the size of the existing large space but there is quite a bit of moving walls around to make a closet larger or smaller, make someone's office 2 ft wider while making someone else's office smaller, and a lot of adding electrical outlets. I am not involved in the electrical work at all but just about every day several of the office users walk thru and make suggestions that get acted on. Wall movement and such I have been involved in.

I am not new to changes on jobs, often see it when folks finally see the space take shape that they realize what they saw on paper as a little square with some lines showing where walls go is not exactly what they want. This is the first time I have been on a job that daily has changes made to it by multiple people who will have an interest in what the final outcome will be.

[dgbldr]

Depends on your local AHJ requirements and practices. Here the inspection is done to the prints approved. You change anything, you need to revise prints and have them approved.

[m beezo]

DG, that is kind of what I am thinking. The guy whose name is on the permit that I am working for seems to not be concerned about the changes at all. His answer has been mostly that we are putting up office walls and they are built to meet code they are just 2 ft over from where they were supposed to be according to the drawings. And he cites the architect wording that actual dimensions are to be field verified.

I rarely have an inspector come in and ask to look at the prints to see if we are building to what the prints say. And I have never really known if they have looked them over back at the office before coming to the job. So moving a wall over, adding a few feet to a closet, do they know that or are they even concerned about that. What they do notice is if things are missing like blocking, cripples under windows, studs that are not set on 16's, why we left one out for a plumbing run, that kind of stuff.

[kfc510]

Unless they're moving bearing or shear walls, inspectors don't generally care about changes like that. YMMV.

And in fact, I've seen the dimensions on shear walls end up radically different than the number on the plans due to architects mis-measuring the space. Even that usually doesn't merit a re-filing of drawings.
kevin

[dgbldr]

Right. Most inspectors here don't really care about little details and dimensions unless and until somebody raises a stink. So let's say the owner doesn't like what the builder did and tells the inspector it's not to print. Then the inspector will look at the print and fail it.

One exception is the electrical inspectors, because here you pay permit fees by the number of devices. So they verify that you didn't install more light fixtures (for example) than you paid for.

[m beezo]

DG,
I have no idea how an electrical permit is paid for. but I know that the standard outlet location of one every 10 ft or what ever is listed is not going to be used. Each office is going to filled with computers, phones, printers, and each of the bigger offices is going to have their own TV sets. So probably about 2 times more than the usual number of outlets.

Is that permit payment based on each box or actual device? Just saying if you put a box in and convert it to a 4 plex does that cost more than a duplex box?

[LIHR50]

beezo Here the electrical inspector counts every fixture, every outlet etc. and I believe the cost is related to that total. My electricians will always include the inspection fees in their price, and that cost also includes their time if needed to be present. Sometimes on a small job I'll be present, but on large remodels with lots of electrical they are always there.

As for changes in design etc.. the inspector wants those changes documented, even if it's a one page amendment. Sometimes they want a complete new drawing. Last job I did we changed the size and location of a floating bench, inspector wanted a completely new drawing. Every inspector and building dept is different. I have the potential to deal with over 80plus different building departments and inspectors.

[dgbldr]

DG,
Is that permit payment based on each box or actual device?

I believe it's per device and per circuit. I don't believe it's based on number of receptacles. My electrician pulls all electrical permits so I don't know exactly, and it varies a bit with each AHJ.

[m beezo]

As for us moving things around there is nothing structural about this building. It is all large concrete columns holding up the floors, floors are said to be 8 inch thick concrete. It used to house excess cars for a dealership, has a couple of elevators that they could put a big old Cadillac on and move up and down the 6 floors. Our walls are only 20 gauge steel studs with 5/8 drywall on them.

I have never really asked about how my electricians figure out the permit costs. I know that it is not uncommon for an outlet to be shown and the homeowner will ask for it to become a 4 plex to save them from putting in a strip to plug things into. I know the electrician has done that for one or two outlets and never had a problem that I have ever heard of.

[Roger P]

State of Michigan Electrical Permit Application
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/la...3_414171_7.pdf

Most local AHJ follow the state fee schedule.

[Allan Edwards]

I have heard the term design/build for years but never really gave it much thought until I go on this job.

Beez, just to clarify the term "design build" generally refers to companies who do both architectural design & GC construction, doing both in-house.

[m beezo]

Allan, that was what I thought of when I heard the owner telling the main contractor that they wanted things moved and since it was a design/build project the could get it the way they wanted. Was not sure he was using the term in the right way but it has now stuck and been brought up several times as to why they can make changes.