RRP Cert renewal

[dgbldr]

I just renewd our company cert. It didn't ask for proof of anything. Just send $300. The requirements are that each firm must have a certified individual. How do they know we do? Are the training outfits forwarding the individual certs directly to the EPA in real time? I doubt it based on how lame and glitchy the software is on both the trainer and EPA websites.

Bill, do you know how this works?

[Bill Robinson]

I believe the issue is brought up when EPA do a investigation

[m beezo]

I believe the issue is brought up when EPA do a investigation

Bill I don't know what this answer means? I read it as if I am caught or reported and the EPA comes out they then decided if I am certified or legal to do the work? Not before I do the work?

I can hear me telling my clients " I think I am certified to do the work although I don't really know that for a fact. The EPA has such a lousy system of checking and reviewing things that I am not sure I am certified. However I am going to charge you some extra and do some extra cleaning and protection like I am certified" When I got certified and knew some of my contractor buddies were not I considered it a badge of honor that I was a step above them in what I was doing. Now it seems like not so much so.

[Bill Robinson]

So there you go Beez.

I mean that I am not aware if EPA is connecting RRP certification with certified firms.

They are two different things.

Someone can be RRP certified and not hold a Certified Firm document.

Everyone who has an RRP certified renovator does not need to be a certified firm. They can be an employee.

That said it does little good to connect the two until there is a complaint or EPA investigation into a job being done which requires a Certifier Renovator on site during setup cleanup and be available during other parts of the job and a firn doing the work meeting the requirement of being an up to date Certified Firm.

A firm holding a Certified Firm certification does not need to have a Certified Renovator on staff, the requirement only requires a certified renovator be on side to preform certain tasks.

Does this help?

[dgbldr]

A firm holding a Certified Firm certification does not need to have a Certified Renovator on staff,

Incorrect. The only way to obtain Firm certification is to have a Certified Renovator on staff.

[Bill Robinson]

Did not know that.
previously RRP was not a requirement for certified firm.

maybe I will look into that

thanks for the heads up

[m beezo]

Bill did not ever hear of a Certified Firm and a Certified Renovator as being 2 different things. I and the renovator and own the firm so just thought it was the same thing or same certificate. I guess what the distinction you are talking about is a company with more employees than just me.

Truthfully I am probably not going to renew mine. I am about to get out of the business in another year or so. Start limiting my work and look for some nice easy jobs to do.

[Bill Robinson]

It may have changed Beez however getting the certified renovator and certified firm are done separate times.
One goes through a certified trainer and other directly through EPA.

Will look into this however I had not been aware the EPA required an RRP certification holder on staff.

I have seen several instances where the company sends a few or one person to get RRP certified and the owner or company officer does not get certified.

If you and DG are correct I am wondering what happens if an employee, staff person, holding the RRP cert moves on does the firm loose its certified firm certificate.

[dgbldr]

Wow.. I'm amazed. Did you guys actually take the class? No offense to anyone but these are basic and simple rules and it's been this way from day one:

1. A Certified Renovator is a person. You take the class and the training company gives you the certificate.
2. A Certified Firm is a company. If the company employs at least one Certified Renovator, it can apply to the EPA and pay $300 to become a Certified Firm.
3. A company cannot legally contract for any work subject to RRP unless it is a Certified Firm.

See Certified Firm cert dating back to 2010. Nothing new.

This was all in the quiz when I took my class both in 2010 and recently so I don't know how anyone can miss it.

By the way, this is exactly how it works with protected trades in my state as well. For example, a Master Plumber cannot perform work for the public. Only a Licensed Plumbing Contractor can. That Contractor company must have at least one Master Plumber on staff and that Master Plumber must supervise each project. And yes, if the Master Plumber quits the company can no longer do any plumbing work.

So yes Bill, a Certified Firm obviously can't do any RRP work unless it has at least one Certified Renovator on staff.

Beez, no it's not just for firms with more than one employee. See my plumber example above. In my state, a plumber who is a one man show needs to be both a Master Plumber and a Plumbing Contractor. He can't pull a permit without a Plumbing Contractor license.

[m beezo]

I took the class but it was years ago. I do not ever remember anyone saying that I needed to be a Certified Firm. I guess I missed that part being explained to me. As I said I think I thought since I am the only employee and also the company owner I was no a Certified Firm. Oh well, my mistake but not anything I am going to worry about. I really don't think I have done anything with lead base paint for several years. Sure I have done some work on older homes but most has been smaller jobs and even those that might have needed some RRP work done was just something I did pretty much without even mentioning lead base paint. Just cleaned it up like I was taught, and went on my merry way.

[Bill Robinson]

the mention of certified firm is in the PowerPoint
however there is so much wording in the course it is easy to miss.

plus like you said beez, you may have either not been paying attention or the instructor did not emphasize it.

[dgbldr]

plus like you said beez, you may have either not been paying attention or the instructor did not emphasize it.

LOL. If I remember correctly, you were an instructor, weren't you? And you didn't know?

[Bill Robinson]

Oh, I am still an instructor and still don't know (believe)

FYI in our discussion we were using the term "staff."

The copy paste you showed said employ, IMO a very different thing.

I am wondering where the actual wording on the application asks for and insists on connecting a certified renovator to the owner cert.

Maybe you can help a buddy out.

[Catspaw]

I looked into the rule recently. It does not appear that a certified firm must employ a certified renovator. The renovator can come from a separate company like a subcontractor.

An individual like me or Beezo would need to be both a certified renovator and a certified firm if we are the only one doing the work.

[Bill Robinson]

Thanks Catspaw!

i looked at my certified firm application and having a certified renovator on staff is not required.

I think where dg and maybe beez are confused is with the imprecise language.

To do the work a firm or company (sole proprietor with no employees) must be a certified firm and have a certified renovation on site at setup and cleanup and be available by phone when not on site.