Handyman Rates

I have a question for those of you that do handyman services. I get quite a few of my past customers that call me to fix a hole, or rework some plumbing, etc. I usally frown at these because it costs us too much money to to small jobs. I have decided that we can't loose these people, so we are going to do a bit a handman services for them. I have some questiosn as to how you bill the customer. First, I have to bill for getting to the job and I have to bill to get parts. But I don't want to hear complaining that we wasted our time getting parts. So I have determined our hourly rate and figured that we will charge one hour at the normal rate for all travel time. Do you guys run into problems with this type of stuff? Secondly, do you markup your materials and tell the customer, markup them up and just bill them, or include the markup in your hourly figure and charge them exact costs for materials?

[BThomas]

Re: Handyman Rates

Watch the WC rates!
I just had my audit and the auditor informed me that the rates were going up again. With all the lack of work the state insurance fund is raising the rates to compensate for their loss income.
My rate went from just over 8% to 14% in two years and now is going up again.
BillT

[hdrider_chgo]

Re: Handyman Rates

Thank you for the answers,

I took some time trying to learn directly from the person who does the payroll and workman's comp but that seemed absurdly complicated, one rate for each specialty, each specialty divided in two other rates for those who make more than a certain amount and another for those who make less than a certain amount. EVERY RATE IS DIFFERENT! Then all those numbers need to be crunched separately for each employee and input by hand (they don't accept computer print outs or Excel files) on a lengthy form and snail mailed to them (it's like they are stuck in the 80's) And State Fund requires some deposits that are never applied to premiums or sent back to us, $2000 here, another $3000 there, and the owner here just says: "That is the way it is, we can't fight this system, it's the law"but I digressed...

That all sounds about right. And in the bigger picture, there are 50 different WC systems, one for each state. I have no idea how small companies that work across state lines manage it. It's the most inefficient and expensive system one could possibly dream up- all part of our ridiculous health care system, where the majority of money goes for private insurance company profits and bureaucracy, rather than actual patient care.

If you want to understand the system, and all the games the insurance companies play to screw you over without you even realizing it, read this book, written by a WC insurance consultant, who helps companies deal with the mess:

http://www.amazon.com/Workers-Compen...8783689&sr=8-1

[David Meiland]

Re: Handyman Rates

one rate for each specialty, each specialty divided in two other rates for those who make more than a certain amount and another for those who make less than a certain amount. EVERY RATE IS DIFFERENT!

That is an accurate description of the California rate structure, and it's similar everywhere else, although I don't know of other states that split rates according to above/below a certain wage level. Here in WA, I have ~10 different classifications that I use, and each one is in dollars per hour worked, not a percentage.. which makes it even harder to use percentages when determining labor costs.

You're probably going to want to present your customers with a few labor rates, not a whole bunch of different rates. They will want a price per hour per man, without wondering if the man is making less than X dollars and is in this comp class or that. I would start by looking at a year's worth of labor costs, preferably by employee. You are going to have to come up with an average that works much of the time, and then mark it up from there to arrive at retail price. There is going to be a lot of slop in it, no matter what you do. If you are in a non-competitive market and can charge a lot, great, but if you have to shave it down to compete (like most of us do), you need to really study historical costs as well as looking at each new job and determining what retail rate(s) will work based on who you're sending out and what they are doing.

My work comp manager at the state told me that a lot of contractors he supervises just use the highest rate in order to avoid a lot of record-keeping and uncertainty about what they will be paying. That makes little sense to me... that would mean paying $1-2 dollar per hour MORE than necessary in some cases, because there is a very wide spread to rates. But I suppose you could do that, if they allow it...

[Mark G]

Re: Handyman Rates

"Someone" should at least be doing a historical evaluation to see what the cost of comp and liability are per hour worked. You don't have to directly use the insurance companies' formulas to come up with a single number that works for you. This number could easily be developed each month and watched month to month. Just divide the items by the hours.

[Bob Kovacs]

Re: Handyman Rates

Since youve already seen that the rates vary wildly, why do you think there wouls be a "simple formula" to use? Other than using the highest rate you pay and applying it to everyonrpe (which would be grossly conservative and inaccurate), there's no simple solution here.

[Marcos]

Re: Handyman Rates

Maybe you better suggest that your bosses sit down with their insurance agent to have him explain the rates.

Thank you for the answers,

I took some time trying to learn directly from the person who does the payroll and workman's comp but that seemed absurdly complicated, one rate for each specialty, each specialty divided in two other rates for those who make more than a certain amount and another for those who make less than a certain amount. EVERY RATE IS DIFFERENT! Then all those numbers need to be crunched separately for each employee and input by hand (they don't accept computer print outs or Excel files) on a lengthy form and snail mailed to them (it's like they are stuck in the 80's) And State Fund requires some deposits that are never applied to premiums or sent back to us, $2000 here, another $3000 there, and the owner here just says: "That is the way it is, we can't fight this system, it's the law"but I digressed...

Going back to my original question, I was wondering if anyone knows a simple formula to come up with a good average in % that would cover for workers compensation and liability insurance, so when I am doing cost-control on a job, i can just apply that percentage and be covered for those costs even before they do their math.

Thanks

Marcos

[jimAKAblue]

Re: Handyman Rates

I work for a Handyman Company here in Los Angeles, I'm not a field guy, I mostly work in the office and I looked at the Workman's comp and liability insurance rates and I was trying to translate that into a percentage of total price in a final handyman rate. I ran into this bulletin board and reading through the threads I noticed that no one is accounting for that kind of overhead, specially with more than 10 workers on the field. Our website is www.ultimate-handyman.com and we have our rates openly posted to all to see online, and the owners here are always struggling to get bigger jobs because the small stuff don't ever pay the bills, but not even them could tell me how much of those rates are insurances and worker compensation. I know that the owners send out checks of $2000 to $3500 every two weeks to State Fund but the amount varies every check! Some buildings and shopping malls require $2 million dollars liability insurance and premiums are outrageous! Can anyone tell me how much % on average we should be paying on workmans compensation and liability on every dollar we charge?

Maybe you better suggest that your bosses sit down with their insurance agent to have him explain the rates.

[S.Joisey]

Re: Handyman Rates

I work for a Handyman Company here in Los Angeles, I'm not a field guy, I mostly work in the office and I looked at the Workman's comp and liability insurance rates and I was trying to translate that into a percentage of total price in a final handyman rate. I ran into this bulletin board and reading through the threads I noticed that no one is accounting for that kind of overhead, specially with more than 10 workers on the field. Our website is www.ultimate-handyman.com and we have our rates openly posted to all to see online, and the owners here are always struggling to get bigger jobs because the small stuff don't ever pay the bills, but not even them could tell me how much of those rates are insurances and worker compensation. I know that the owners send out checks of $2000 to $3500 every two weeks to State Fund but the amount varies every check! Some buildings and shopping malls require $2 million dollars liability insurance and premiums are outrageous! Can anyone tell me how much % on average we should be paying on workmans compensation and liability on every dollar we charge?

It would be a function of the percentage your state charges/$$$ payroll and percentage of billable hours/total hours your company pays for labor.

[Marcos]

Re: Handyman Rates

I know of a franchise here in MA, that charges
$85.hr 2 hr min! They have a few vans a small trailer & signs looking for help on the vans!
Personaly I try to get the customer to put together a small punch list. That way a I can charge them for a block of time ( 4-8 hrs )
As for materials I list them together with a markup included.I don't list materials as
seperate items.The customers don't seem to mind because it is still resonable and they accually
got someone to do it!

I work for a Handyman Company here in Los Angeles, I'm not a field guy, I mostly work in the office and I looked at the Workman's comp and liability insurance rates and I was trying to translate that into a percentage of total price in a final handyman rate. I ran into this bulletin board and reading through the threads I noticed that no one is accounting for that kind of overhead, specially with more than 10 workers on the field. Our website is www.ultimate-handyman.com and we have our rates openly posted to all to see online, and the owners here are always struggling to get bigger jobs because the small stuff don't ever pay the bills, but not even them could tell me how much of those rates are insurances and worker compensation. I know that the owners send out checks of $2000 to $3500 every two weeks to State Fund but the amount varies every check! Some buildings and shopping malls require $2 million dollars liability insurance and premiums are outrageous! Can anyone tell me how much % on average we should be paying on workmans compensation and liability on every dollar we charge?

[S.P.Carpentry]

Re: Handyman Rates

I know of a franchise here in MA, that charges
$85.hr 2 hr min! They have a few vans a small trailer & signs looking for help on the vans!
Personally I try to get the customer to put together a small punch list. That way a I can charge them for a block of time ( 4-8 hrs )
As for materials I list them together with a markup included.I don't list materials as
separate items.The customers don't seem to mind because it is still reasonable and they actually
got someone to do it!

Wow, seeing this post caught me by surprise! I totally forgot about having that screen name. I thought there was someone here with the same last name LOL

[gburnet]

Re: Handyman Rates

I just ignore those guys. The same for the political ranters that populate sites

Yeah, I know what you mean, Tim. But I figure if we ignore them then the problem persists. There's been a pretty good rash of spam (& stupid political posts) hitting the boards lately & the powers-that-be don't seem to get that this trash degrades the site.

[colevalleytim]

Re: Handyman Rates

I just ignore those guys. The same for the political ranters that populate sites

[gburnet]

Re: Handyman Rates

BTW I think this is a valid thread to keep alive

Agreed, but it was resurrected by a spammer.

[MarkMc]

Re: Handyman Rates

I've lowered my rates over the last few years, partly because demand has gone down, but I still have pretty aggressive handyman rates.

How do you feel about part time online software sales? No bricks, no mortar, just go around and leave your calling card[s] similar to the post above yours. Heck, if you get good at [electronic] card dealing you could maybe just do that full time and see the world in a new, non-Navy kinda way. ;)