Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

[archie tect]

Friends of mine are renovating their house, and now the GC is doing his RFI's and ordering window and door packages. Door hardware wasn't initially specified, but when owner chose a mortise lockset for the front door, GC cautioned it would cost significantly more. He asked if instead he could do two bored cylinders for a latch and deadbolt.

He says that mortise lock install will take the better part of day and the door vendor is quoting $250 to do edge prep on the new wood door leaf. Cylinder boring is free. GC is worried about damage to the edge of the 1 3/4" door, so would prefer factory prep, but I believe it's best done after the new door has been aligned on site.

I haven't seen it done a lot, but could swear I've seen guys set up a jig and make the mortise in about an hour. Is this GC hiding the fact that he's just a "case and base" carpenter, or is installing a mortise lock really an advanced and difficult task?

[climberevan]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

The first one I did (with just a chisel and drill on a $3k Mahogany slab) took a few hours, including beveling the edges and mortising for hinges, as I recall. The better part of a day would be pretty slow, IMO. That said, it is definitely a lot more involved and difficult than just doing a double bore. It all depends on how often they do it, like everything.

[Ohiobuilder]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

We do them onsite from time to time. We have a lock mortise router that clamps to the door.

His price is a little high but if he is your only option it might be just right.

[LIHR50]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

No way will it take the "better" part of the day, but it's not a quick install either, especially when it's on very expensive doors which usually is the case.
I'll bill out one half day at my highest mechanics labor rate (if it's part of a larger project) to install that lock.


bottom line is finding someone who is capable of doing a very clean installation. GC crying about that lock tells me one thing, he has little if no experience with them and doesn't want to deal with it.

[jobercian]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

Like everything...it depends. Can easily take a couple hours and in some cases could creep towards the "better part of a day". As was said, I would see a 1/2 day charge as the minimum. When they are done "just so" it is a thing of beauty. Doesn't require special skills, just special frame of mind.

[joseph]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

lets say i had a mortise machine . I do not do this often .There is a lot of set-up which better check twice .You do not get a second chance . Not only the bore but the nobs and lock hole need setting .Yes you can get jigs for each lock[many are the same] .Oh and you mayget a paper template ,Still [from experience ]you want to double check . If I did them every day it would be so much faster .Generally we do not see them very often so I say he is covering himself fairly or wisely . Yes prebore door at factory .I cannot see a problem with this but advise you get lockset to the factory so they do the right bore/set-up .If I only had one door I would drill and chisel it out -it would be faster then borrowing /finding a mortise machine .I use a doweling jig to find my centers and start my holes .

[LIHR50]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

a master carpenter from yesteryear would be shaking his head and laughing at us all

[jobercian]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

a master carpenter from yesteryear would be shaking his head and laughing at us all

That is the only answer that really makes sense in this thread.

[Overbuilders]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

a master carpenter from yesteryear would be shaking his head and laughing at us all

A master carpenter from yesteryear would look at all the modern tools available today (including smart phones and computers) and poop his pants. I would hold my nose and laugh at him.

[Overbuilders]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

A one-off installation might be bid to take all day because of set up, verifying proper vertical location and drilling for several thumbturn and/or required hole options. If you were doing an entire house the learning curve obviously brings that time down.

I have a Porter Cable 513 lock mortiser and would definitely practice drilling a couple of slots in a 2x8 before machining the real deal. Mortise locks can be very finicky when trying to fine tune, as well. I wouldn't have a problem bidding it as an all day project for an qualified but uninitiated carpenter.

[Dick Seibert]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

A one-off installation might be bid to take all day because of set up, verifying proper vertical location and drilling for several thumbturn and/or required hole options. If you were doing an entire house the learning curve obviously brings that time down.

I have a Porter Cable 513 lock mortiser and would definitely practice drilling a couple of slots in a 2x8 before machining the real deal. Mortise locks can be very finicky when trying to fine tune, as well. I wouldn't have a problem bidding it as an all day project for an qualified but uninitiated carpenter.

Richie is right as usual, when I was a young carpenter we finished a job without the front door lockset, eventually the contractor gave it to me and asked me to go by the job in the morning and install it. It took me 7 hours and I thought I was going to get fired, trying to prop up the door between sawhorses and guide a brace and bit vertically, then chiseling out the square box to make everything fit, then aligning the bores was real time consuming. I don't know how much those jigs cost, by the time I got my next one prehangers had taken over, I believe Porter Cable made them?

[dave_k]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

He says that mortise lock install will take the better part of day and the door vendor is quoting $250 to do edge prep on the new wood door leaf.

He must be prepping that lock with a penknife. Get your doors from someone with experience.[/QUOTE]

I haven't seen it done a lot, but could swear I've seen guys set up a jig and make the mortise in about an hour. Is this GC hiding the fact that he's just a "case and base" carpenter, or is installing a mortise lock really an advanced and difficult task?

I just did the IR certification exam in October, we had an hour and 15 minutes to install a mortise lock....actually the way the exam was set up we had 3 locks to do in 4 hours, mortise and latch were machined we had to drill function holes for a classroom lock, cylinder and dead bolt. The complete exam was 8 openings in 24 hours, those three locks counted as one opening.

The mortise lock was the most time consuming, I was done all three in 3 hours, no jigs, using only Fisher Price hand tools (not my own) and a cordless drill that was shared among 4 guys. I also had to run around and hunt for drill bits, masking tape etc.

In the real world:

It takes me 20 minutes to set up the mortiser and mortise the the lock.

To make a jig for the faceplate takes half an hour tops.

I can hack out a latch in 15 minutes with a dull chisel and a utility knife.

In real life situations I have jigs for every step of the job. I charge half an hour to install a mortise lock, that includes the time pulling the hardware and getting it to the door. As per the fire code I only drill holes under 5/8" at that price.

If I am doing a full prep including strike and I am on the job set up I charge 1/2 hour. If I had to show up on your job, lug my tools to the door, lug them back to the truck and then get to another job I'd charge you 4 hours or $300.

Installing mortise locks is not rocket science. It follows the rule of 10,000 that governs every human skill. Once you do 10,000 repetitions of something, whether it's somersaults or locksets, you become a virtuoso. You can put the most talented carpenter on the job and he will fumble around unless he has lots of experience and a mediocre carpenter who has done thousands will be done in no time.

[dave_k]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

I just checked the price to one off prep a door for a mortise lock from a local hardware supplier. $42 for the first one, if your project has hundreds of doors the price can go down to $8 for a complete door prep, hinges, locks, exit devices, edge preps and they'll finish them with polyurethane for another $18. I've heard of prices half that but not recently because I am no longer in that business. They have programable machines that prep the doors and automated finish lines. The $42 one is done by hand.

[dgbldr]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

I just checked the price to one off prep a door for a mortise lock from a local hardware supplier. $42 for the first one,

Let me get this right. You have a hardware supplier who will do all the door machining for a mortise lock, and for $42? Wow, I'd like to know if others have this available in their area.

In my area, hardware suppliers are Richelieu and folks like that. They don't do door machining for any price. In fact they don't supply any labor type services, they just sell hardware. Perhaps I need to move to a better neighborhood.

[dave_k]

Re: Amount of labor to install a mortise lockset

Let me get this right. You have a hardware supplier who will do all the door machining for a mortise lock, and for $42? Wow, I'd like to know if others have this available in their area.

I'm sure you do, you just aren't dealing with suppliers that handle a lot of doors with mortise locks;) Locally, in our market of 500k people these 5 companies all compete in the supply of doors and architectural hardware. There are other "door shops" that just do residential interior doors with bored locksets but these guys do the heavier doors that would have mortise locks.

http://www.jpwsystems.ca/main.cfm?id...FF7807D43A53FA
http://www.proable.com/
http://www.countyheritage.com/
http://www.southwestdoors.ca/
http://www.allmar.com/

With the exception of County Heritage, (who probably have a salesman who covers your area btw, I know they ship as far as Florida)these guys all buy their doors from suppliers like Baillargeon Door. http://www.baillargeondoors.com/en/A...on-Doors.shtml who pre-machine the doors.

I'm using Baillargeon because they are just one of many companies doing this. There is quite a bit of competition in this business and a decade ago there was fear that we were going to be overrun by huge door suppliers in the USA who would pre-machine for $5 and finish for $8.

This is the quotation form you would fill out for Baillargeon http://www.baillargeondoors.com/down...st_Form_en.pdf note the detail that includes finishes, glazing, and every piece of hardware on the door. They have a similar form for jambs.

I don't know anyone in Canada who preps on site any more. It's so cheap for the door companies to do it and our fire code doesn't permit uncertified installers to machine anything over 5/8" anyway. It costs me more to unwrap and take out the wrapping to the dumpster than it does to buy a door prepped.

On the subject of fast economical preps, when my schedule clears up a bit I am going to work on developing a mortise lock installation tool that will speed up prep a great deal. It's going to do nothing for the guy that isn't doing them with production tools already but if you are tooled up and doing this professionally this product will make you money. That's all I'm going to say for now.