Nailing exterior trim

[Guest]

The installation of painted trim for fascia boards, corner boards, window trim, etc has always caused arguments among carpenters. Trim nails? headed nails? r/s or smooth?
Although I dislike the damage a headed nail, either hand or nailgun, can inflict if set too deep or rosebudded, I do appreciate the holding power versus a finish nail. In retospect, very rarely would the finish nails be all set in the same directional plane therefore creating additional holding power beyond the actual trim head. I would like to hear comments from others about their techniques, what works and what they now know to avoid.
The possibilities are in the eyes of the beholder! For instance, I like headed nails for fascia mostly because it is at a distance beyond normal viewing, wood soffit definately headed; whereas corner boards many times get trim nails as they are readily at eye level. These are personal preferences bit I would like to hear others comments and thoughts.

Jim

[Guest]

Re: Nailing exterior trim

I think a spiral 8d galv siding nail is best for most exterior work, and ring shanks for the nailgun. The holding power of a spiral is unbeatable (IMHO).

To me, the key to nailing anything is to correctly set the nail, and use a proper nailing pattern.

I spend a little extra time adjusting the air pressure and set on my nailgun in order to get the nail heads "dead on" flush when I nail up trim. I'll continually watch the nailing as I work to make sure it doesn't change.

We use 2 nails/16" on x4 lumber, 3 on x6, 3 or 4 on x8, 4 on x10, and 4 or 5 on x12. Nailing at 16" OC is a must too on trim.

I've never worried much about people seeing the nails, as a properly set nailhead, once painted, is almost indistinguishable at a distance of 12 to 13' or more. This has been my experience at least.

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Nailing exterior trim

Which has better holding power, a ring shank or a spiral?

[Guest]

Re: Nailing exterior trim

I don't have any data to back me up, but I think overall the best fastener would be a hand-driven spiral. Hand driven nails definitely make for tighter joints.

I've had a hell of a time pulling spirals back out. Ring shanks are also a pain, but less so. Having that, and the added fact that I've NEVER been called back to fix something fastened with either, I would highly recommend them for exterior trimwork.

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Nailing exterior trim

I mostly use the stainless ringshank or ring shak gun nails, properly set.

I have used box 8d galv alot but have recently moved to the stainless.

I avoid the finish nails except on covered trim, moldings, etc. [covered proch, screened proch, etc.]

[Guest]

Re: Nailing exterior trim

I agree that placement and number of nails are just as if not more important than type of nail used. I myself use 6d stainless r/s nails for my claps and I use the same nail just 8d for my trim. The s.s nail paints well, the ring shank holds almost to well, and the head size is between a finish nail and a box nail. Nailed flush it dissapears.

[Guest]

Re: Nailing exterior trim

My favorite is the 8d ring shank trim head stainless. Sometimes hard to find, but well worth the hassle and the money. They hold well, never rot or bleed and the small head is far less visible. They have yet to come in a gun version.

[Guest]

Re: Nailing exterior trim

Dick, I believe Dan Dolan at Virgina Tech did some research that confirms Dave's belief about the superiority of spiral-shank nails. I don't know whether Dolan tested hand-driven vs. gun-driven, however. Spiral-shank nails for trim seem like overkill to me.

[Guest]

Re: Nailing exterior trim

Charles:

This shows how wrong we can be. I have always thought you used spirals when you wanted to "pull" things together (like cupped siding), and rink shanks when you didn't need anything to "pull" things together, but were more concerned with "holding" things together, and lumber shrinkage, because the grain in the wood would catch on the rings and bring the nail down as the lumber shrank, and prevent nail "poping" (like green lumber joists that are going to shrink down around the nail and pop up the nail head). Why use rink shanks if spirals hold better? It would be interesting to ask one of the nail company's engineers why they make both.

[Guest]

Re: Nailing exterior trim

Good point Dick!

An older carpenter friend of mine uses spirals for all types of stuff. He recently told me tht the lumber yard is starting to stock stainless spiral siding and trim nails.

I'd like to know the difference too.

[Guest]

Re: Nailing exterior trim

I use the spiral hand drives, and ring shank gun nails for trim. I've only used spiral gun nails for sheathing walls and subfloors on framing jobs.

My guess about the difference would be the nail's reaction to shear force. When I pull a spiral hand drive nail, it turns as it comes out. I'm thinking that maybe as the nail is pulled and sheared, such as in a sheet of plywood as it begins to buckle, it turns and exposes a new part of it to the shear force.

This is only a guess based on what I've seen nails do when I pull 'em. I'm not an engineer so don't beat me up too bad if you know better.

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Nailing exterior trim

My non-engineering theory is that the spiral would tend to hold better, esp if hand-driven, because as they twist, they do not deform the surrounding wood beyond the basic cross-section, and when fully driven, there is greater contact than with a ring shank, which basically creates a hole almost the diameter of the largest part of the ring. If the wood is exposed to higher humidity, the wood will swell and close up the hole, expanding into the sawtooth gaps, but this can't be counted on, and if the wood dries after nailing, it would seem to have the reverse effect.