Builder Trend Growing!

[Allan Edwards]

http://siliconprairienews.com/2014/1...-story-office/

[LIHR50]

Re: Builder Trend Growing!

or they got a big investor behind them


There are a couple others out there doing the same thing.

The weak link in all of them is all involved must be using it. It requires 100% participation.

I guess part of the big builders' agreement with all trades is they must use it or you will not be hired for the project.

These cyber programs may have lots of positives, but they are wishful thinking in an imperfect world, especially in building where everything can and does go wrong. IMO you still need that physical contact, conversation, eye to eye between people.

maybe I'm wrong and they have enough users to support that nice expensive building, or they got big money from deep pockets who believe in it.

[Allan Edwards]

Re: Builder Trend Growing!

or they got a big investor behind them


There are a couple others out there doing the same thing.

The weak link in all of them is all involved must be using it. It requires 100% participation.

I guess part of the big builders' agreement with all trades is they must use it or you will not be hired for the project.

These cyber programs may have lots of positives, but they are wishful thinking in an imperfect world, especially in building where everything can and does go wrong. IMO you still need that physical contact, conversation, eye to eye between people.

maybe I'm wrong and they have enough users to support that nice expensive building, or they got big money from deep pockets who believe in it.

I have no idea about the investor part. They are in Omaha, where Warren is, who knows, maybe he advises :) No matter, the #'s have to work for a company. Yes, it does require participation, not sure it has to be 100% but your subs, employees, vendors, and homeowners have to buy in and use it or it doesn't work for you the contractor. But that is up to the builder to make it work, you cannot just buy the program and put it on autopilot. And yes, that is a big challenge. It is not meant to replace day to day supervision or communication but to supplement that process.

[LIHR50]

Re: Builder Trend Growing!

Fieldwire and Fieldlens are another two in the same game. I can't see a large enough audience to support them.

BuilderTrend is trying to be like Google with their fancy work place. Google provides Free dry cleaning, food, electric cars to use,etc.... a very pleasant work environment to make people want to work for them.
But there's big difference, Google is making the money to pay for it all, Buildtrend IMO is using investor money.

[WFHomes]

Re: Builder Trend Growing!

Gary,
I'm not sure why you get that impression. It can be very helpful even if you use only parts of the software. For example, I have long distance clients building a summer house on the Jersey Shore. If I use Buildertrend for pictures, communications and documents sharing for allowances spent and change orders, that itself is a huge plus. As far as their company, they seem to be constantly hiring and growing as a company, that's not investment, that's growth.

[Allan Edwards]

Re: Builder Trend Growing!

I can't see a large enough audience to support them. Buildtrend IMO is using investor money.

There are a handful of companies providing these type of platforms for contractors, I think Builder Trend, Co-Construct, and Build Tools might be the industry leaders. I started with Buildlinks then switched to Builder Trend. Regarding Builder Trend using investor money for their building, not sure how you can deduce that, why can't they be paying for it with user fees.

[jstoddard]

Re: Builder Trend Growing!

I don't know where you guys are getting your information, but as far as I know the three partners at BuilderTREND bootstrapped the company to start it (with help from friends and family, etc.) and their growth has been funded primarily from receipts - not venture capital.

In terms of their building - it was a big move for them but now they're landlords. They're using some of the space and funding it with tenants. My understanding is they're actually less out-of-pocket for their space now than when they were leasing space.

In terms of them (or any of these systems) needing 100% participation- that is also completely untrue, and is a gross over-simplification. There's plenty of value in using the internal modules with no sub participation whatsoever - it all depends what you're trying to accomplish. We have many, many clients using BuilderTREND, Co-Construct and other similar systems that don't necessarily have all their trade partners in the system, and they are getting enough value from the system to justify its cost, and then some, even without subcontractor participation.

Do they work *better* if everyone is on the same page? Sure they do. That's common sense. If you're using Scheduling or Purchasing for example - it's better for the subs/suppliers to log into the system. But practically all of the cloud-based systems today can/will do messaging by email or text and actually do not require your trade partners to have accounts. Getting them there is a good long-term goal but it should not stop you from trying some cloud-based tools if you can't do that initially. There are many things you can do to "build bridges" between your low-tech and high-tech users.

Final myth I'd like to dispel - that these systems are trying to be a "replacement" for in-person interaction. Why would you think that?

They're tools. There is a time and a place for all kinds of interaction on a construction project. Sometimes you need an in-person meeting. Sometimes you don't. If you can save substantial cycle time, direct costs, or overhead by working in the cloud to solve problems - vs - requiring everyone to fight traffic for 2 hours to attend a 20 minute meeting - why wouldn't you do that? Cloud-based systems are simply tools that can help you deliver the right information to the people who need it - when they need it. That's efficient, it's 'green', it's 'lean' - it makes good business sense.

You don't necessarily need an industry-specific solution to do any of the above. There are always going to be generic methods that will offer at least some of the same benefits of the industry-specific system. Whether that's good enough for your operation - or you need one of the vertical industry solutions - that's something everyone needs to evaluate for themselves.

JLS

If anyone has any evidence of BuilderTREND taking venture funding - I'd appreciate seeing it.

[LIHR50]

Re: Builder Trend Growing!

Joe,

You definitely opened my eyes with you're excellent post. Sometimes we (I) have tunnel vision and think too much in the old school of things.
I purchase tools for specific tasks, but many times those tools are not used to their fullest, but that doesn't mean they are not useful. Sometimes 50% of their potential is 100% better then previous methods.

With 400k users (BuilderTrend) there is no doubt cash is flowing in.

I'm small scale with two employees with about a dozen trade relationships (sub contractors). For me e-mails, texts, and phone calls cover the bases.

[jstoddard]

Re: Builder Trend Growing!

Gary
I appreciate your post But your instincts are not far off either. I've never understood why software companies think they need to inflate their user numbers, but practically every one I've ever worked with does it - and exactly zero have ever made their real user numbers public unless they had to do it for a buy-out or similar.

I'll just say this much - it's one thing to have had 400,000 unique log-ins of your subscriber/web-based system (one definition of a "user"), and something completely different to have 400,000 unique paying customers (my definition of a "user"). NO company serving our industry has ever had numbers of paying customers even remotely close to that -ever. I don't think you'd get to 400,000 paying users if you took every paying user of every web-based construction management system available for residential.

Timberline at its peak in the 90's was one of the biggest if not the biggest "vertical" software companies - and they had 125,000 users of their accounting software globally - a product used across multiple industries - but only 6000 users of their estimating software - a product specific to construction (and the market leader in that niche).

To give you some other numbers for comparison - Guild Quality - the excellent - and market-leading firm that does customer satisfaction surveys for builders and remodelers - has worked tirelessly for years to acquire 2500 real current builders/remodelers using their service. I tell you that because Geoff Graham is one of the few people I've ever met who is completely transparent about his number of paying users. If a software company serving our industry gets to 2-3000 true paying users, they're doing very well.

But back to BuilderTREND. I run into them a lot amongst my clients - both among builders and remodelers I work with, and across a wide swath of builder/remodeler sizes, from very small operations to fairly large production builders. Even though it's really best-suited for custom builders and remodelers - even production builders do find enough value in their system to justify using it along side other tools. Field guys like how it does scheduling and shares documents - and those two things alone are enough value to justify their using it.

So take any one of the competing "cloud-based construction management" services that's out there that has made it "over the hump" and lets assume that like Guild Quality - they've also been able after 4-5yrs of marketing to gain 2500 users. BuilderTREND has a 4-project annual minimun or $2400. BuildTOOLS the last I knew was $250/mo for unlimited projects - so also around $2500-3000/yr per user. I think Co-Construct is in that ballpark, as are most of the other companies in this space. Let's just say they can all average $2400/year/paying user. That would generate 2500 x $2400 or $6,000,000 in annual revenue. A $6M software company in this business is nothing to sneeze at.

For BuilderTREND - that business model/volume would be more than enough to fund their development payroll, marketing, and support people, their hosting costs, their marketing efforts, their facility costs, and all the rest - and still make a reasonable return for the 3 partners (who are all very smart guys, BTW. I do know they don't do anything on a whim). They build 95% of their software in-house vs. leasing components from other companies - and that means they have almost no license fees that have to come out their subscription revenue. So on one hand they pay a lot of programmers - but on the other they own the code.

And as far as their new building goes - someone made the comment that they were trying to "be like Google" or whatever. That's just nuts. One piece of real estate in Omaha does not Google make. Google owns office parks all across the country - I see their facilities practically everywhere I travel to. My understanding is that BuilderTREND is using a portion of the floorspace in that building and leasing out the rest. If true - that's smart business. They're building an excellent asset value while working rent-free.

JLS

[Alexhudson]

Re: Builder Trend Growing!

Gary
I appreciate your post But your instincts are not far off either. I've never understood why software companies think they need to inflate their user numbers, but practically every one I've ever worked with does it - and exactly zero have ever made their real user numbers public unless they had to do it for a buy-out or similar.

I'll just say this much - it's one thing to have had 400,000 unique log-ins of your subscriber/web-based system (one definition of a "user"), and something completely different to have 400,000 unique paying customers (my definition of a "user"). NO company serving our industry has ever had numbers of paying customers even remotely close to that -ever. I don't think you'd get to 400,000 paying users if you took every paying user of every web-based construction management system available for residential.

Timberline at its peak in the 90's was one of the biggest if not the biggest "vertical" software companies - and they had 125,000 users of their accounting software globally - a product used across multiple industries - but only 6000 users of their estimating software - a product specific to construction (and the market leader in that niche).

To give you some other numbers for comparison - Guild Quality - the excellent - and market-leading firm that does customer satisfaction surveys for builders and remodelers - has worked tirelessly for years to acquire 2500 real current builders/remodelers using their service. I tell you that because Geoff Graham is one of the few people I've ever met who is completely transparent about his number of paying users. If a software company serving our industry gets to 2-3000 true paying users, they're doing very well.

But back to BuilderTREND. I run into them a lot amongst my clients - both among builders and remodelers I work with, and across a wide swath of builder/remodeler sizes, from very small operations to fairly large production builders. Even though it's really best-suited for custom builders and remodelers - even production builders do find enough value in their system to justify using it along side other tools. Field guys like how it does scheduling and shares documents - and those two things alone are enough value to justify their using it.

So take any one of the competing "cloud-based construction management" services that's out there that has made it "over the hump" and lets assume that like Guild Quality - they've also been able after 4-5yrs of marketing to gain 2500 users. BuilderTREND has a 4-project annual minimun or $2400. BuildTOOLS the last I knew was $250/mo for unlimited projects - so also around $2500-3000/yr per user. I think Co-Construct is in that ballpark, as are most of the other companies in this space. Let's just say they can all average $2400/year/paying user. That would generate 2500 x $2400 or $6,000,000 in annual revenue. A $6M software company in this business is nothing to sneeze at.

For BuilderTREND - that business model/volume would be more than enough to fund their development payroll, marketing, and support people, their hosting costs, their marketing efforts, their facility costs, and all the rest - and still make a reasonable return for the 3 partners (who are all very smart guys, BTW. I do know they don't do anything on a whim). They build 95% of their software in-house vs. leasing components from other companies - and that means they have almost no license fees that have to come out their subscription revenue. So on one hand they pay a lot of programmers - but on the other they own the code.

And as far as their new building goes - someone made the comment that they were trying to "be like Google" or whatever. That's just nuts. One piece of real estate in Omaha does not Google make. Google owns office parks all across the country - I see their facilities practically everywhere I travel to. My understanding is that BuilderTREND is using a portion of the floorspace in that building and leasing out the rest. If true - that's smart business. They're building an excellent asset value while working rent-free.

JLS

website design service

[Allan Edwards]

Re: Builder Trend Growing!

Builder Trend is about to allow customers to pay builder's online change orders and other payments via credit card or echecks through their program. Looks very promising.

[TSJHD1]

Re: Builder Trend Growing!

Sometimes we (I) ...think too much in the old school of things.
I purchase tools for specific tasks, but many times those tools are not used to their fullest, but that doesn't mean they are not useful. Sometimes 50% of their potential is 100% better then previous methods.

Absolutely!! And how bout when you discover additional uses for those tools you never imagined when you purchased them?

Using "Tools" as an analogy seems to cover a lot of ground. Joe mentioned it as well.

About 25 years ago, after learning the "how and why" of cutting rafters using the tables on a framing square, I quickly made the jump to using a TI-30 calculator. (There were no feet and inches calculators at the time that I was aware of. I think I actually brought out the calculator for the first time when I had a 4.5/12 roof to frame. No tables for a 4.5/12 pitch on that square, and you can't just go "halfway between" 4/12 and 5/12 to figure it out!)

I didn't know any carpenters at that time using calculators, and I would occasionally get the offhand comment about me being "nothing" without that calculator (I used it a lot, and just like any other tool, I quickly found all sorts of on-the-jobsite uses for it...) I knew that a person who would make a narrow-minded comment like that just didn't understand that that calculator was a productivity tool, and really nothing more. And even though I was usually the only guy on the job using one, I could still interact with them. But I digress...

Fast-forward to today, and I have a customer who wants a simple portico roof built over an entry door. My current tool of choice to make sure his and my idea of the design is the same, is Sketchup. I was able to draw 5 different options in about 1 hour, convert them to gif's, and email them to the customer, all from the jobsite. He picked the one he liked best, we had a 15 minute phone call, and I was able to not have to set up an after-hours meeting with him to nail down the design.

Does he have SU on his computer? No. But this productivity tool still served its purpose: Saving Time.

I scratched the surface using BT a couple years ago while working for a renovation contractor in DC. I did not use all the aspects of the software, nor did most of my subs, but it still enabled me to be more productive running that job.

How many tools have we tradesmen bought over the years, with a certain task in mind, only to find out that tool could be used for many other different tasks, the more we used it?

Case in point: My first sliding compound miter saw. Bought it for interior trim. Have used it for:

-Framing: great for cutting multiples
-Siding: First cedar, then vinyl, nowadays, Hardie
-Stairs: Put a Forrest blade in it and cut Oak treads, railings, balusters, risers..., I've even kerfed the backside of risers so I could bend them to make a curved step.
-Hardwood flooring: I think it's the fastest tool for quickly cutting notched pieces around..., well, anything. (Yes, I still use a table saw too...)
-Posts: Remember the old days of cutting a post with a circular saw?
-I've even cut aluminum track on that saw.

I'm small scale with two employees with about a dozen trade relationships (sub contractors). For me e-mails, texts, and phone calls cover the bases.

I think when it comes to the software tools out there, a little "outside the box thinking," applied perhaps in a similar manner as with job-site tools (ever used a router attached to a trammel to arc out curved wall plates, using 3/4" plywood? If not, well...), can go a long way towards increasing your productivity, and even with my limited time using BT, I could see the potential.

(I just wish I could get to the place in my career where I'm making my money using the technology tools more often! Lol)

Tom

[Ohiobuilder]

Re: Builder Trend Growing!

Builder Trend is about to allow customers to pay builder's online change orders and other payments via credit card or echecks through their program. Looks very promising.

Co-Construct offers a payment option through paypal, I just have never taken advantage of it. I suppose I should and get paid quicker.

[John G. Ania]

Buildertrend is a construction management system for home builders, remodelers, specialty contractors and general contractors. It combines project scheduling, project management, financial management, customer management and service management in a single suite.Buildertrend, the leading provider of cloud-based software for homebuilders, remodelers and specialty contractors, today announced it is the sole Nebraska-based company to be recognized as one of the fastest-growing technology companies in America on Deloitte's Technology Fast 500™.