ACQ and straps

[jepaulsen]

I'm sure this has been run through the ringer a thousand times, but here is the ACQ problem rearing it's ugly head again.

Here's the situation:

We have been schooled by the boys at Simpson and by our local officials that if it is in contact with ACQ lumber, it needs to be either HDG, stainless, or the simpson "Z-max" process.

Armed with the knowledge, my crews are aware that under penalty of death, the mush adhere to making sure that every simpson item is a "z" series if it is in contact with ACQ. All nails are HDG and if there is a question, provide a barrier between the item and the wood (flex flashing/protecto etc...)

So, in our current project, we have numerous (100+) Simpson STHD straps at the perimeter of the buildings - embeded into the concrete. As we frame, the straps will get nailed to the plate and up into the framing member. Even in the Simpson book, it is showing the strap in direct contact with the treated material (Page 42 of the 08 book).

So with all of these straps in place, it has been noted that not a damn one of them is a HDG or zmax strap - which to my amazment, I did not identify in the first place. We are moving ahead prior to getting an answer from Simpson (or here for that matter) by placing a barrier at the contact point, but I am curious why Simpson would even bother selling the product without the zmax coating or is the gauge of the strap such that it is not subject to the ACQ warning - especially a strap that is so commonly in contact with treated material!?

Interested in everyone elses take on this.

Thanks

[steves]

Acording to Simpons web site they are galvanized

[Greg Di]

Are you sure you're still getting ACQ? It's not very common these days. Most PT is MCA or MCQ which is allegedly more metal friendly.

[Lavrans]

Greg- I think that it's still fairly regional who is getting ACQ & who's getting other stuff. I have to special order PT to get anything but ACQ here.

Also- their "galvanized" is, by default not enough to meet their ACQ contact... I suspect they assume the straps are going over the sheathing and won't be in contact with any PT? Just a hunch.

[Greg Di]

I scored some ACQ the other day by accident because I went to a different yard than normal. I forgot how much nicer it is (relatively speaking) than MCA or MCQ. No knots, very straight, gorgeous milling.

What kills me is how good the CCA wood I demo everyday is compared to the crap we are using now. I'm ripping out 20 year old CCA that is in PERFECT shape. In fact, the other day, we pulled out six CCA 6x6s that were BURIED in mud under a hot tub for 15 years. They were in pristine shape. I even considered salvaging them and using them as deck posts.

[jepaulsen]

Originally Posted by Lavrans

Greg- I think that it's still fairly regional who is getting ACQ & who's getting other stuff. I have to special order PT to get anything but ACQ here.

Also- their "galvanized" is, by default not enough to meet their ACQ contact... I suspect they assume the straps are going over the sheathing and won't be in contact with any PT? Just a hunch.

Lav-

That's the interesting thing... In the simpson hardware book, their graphic shows the installation in direct contact with the treated material. One would assume that for the sake of liability, Simpson would have a BIG WARNING on the page indicating that this is a no-no with ACQ. As indicated in a comment above, the standard Simpson Galvi Process does not cut it with the ACQ. On the STHD specifically, they dont even offer it in HDG or Zmax except by super special order.

I am still at a loss as to why Simpson is even producing items for these applications that are not rated for contact. I can see it with a truss clip (low likelyhood of ACQ lumber) but with anything even remotely located nead a sill plate or hold down... that is a no brainer.

In any case, it sounds like the strap touching the ACQ is a no-no... so we will proceed as such. Another unexpected hit to my labor calc... Oh well - no big deal since contracting has made me soooooo rich!

[Greg Di]

If you need a quick way to isolate hardware, you can buy Plastidip in a spray can. It's the same rubber they put on the handles of pliers.

It's much faster and neater than Vycor or other membranes.

[Lavrans]

Greg- I've been meaning to try that- I have a can of the dip-style. I didn't know they had it in a spray can.

[Greg Di]

Lav--

http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip

Ace has it usually

[Lavrans]

Greg- question is, how does it stand up? How long have you been using that method? Been back to check on older installs?

I just hadn't seen it in aerosol cans.


Couldn't help myself: do you color code your hardware now?

[Greg Di]

Originally Posted by Lavrans

Greg- question is, how does it stand up? How long have you been using that method? Been back to check on older installs?

I just hadn't seen it in aerosol cans.


Couldn't help myself: do you color code your hardware now?

It's rubber more or less and I have no scientific data to back up what I'm doing other than the fact that it can't hurt and the stuff is pretty robust. I have only used it a few times on specialty hardware that you can't get Zmax in easily. The alternative is giftwrapping the hardware in Vycor which is a real PITA and not really proven either.

Remember that your hand tools are coated in this and are subjected to much worse wear and tear than something as inanimate as a hanger or strap. Moisture is irrelevant as we are only looking to create a barrier and the PlastiDip is not going to degrade on its own.

For color coding, I outsource to a powdercoater!

[jepaulsen]

Talked with the our local building inspector about this today, and he stated that he was less concerned with the strap being in contact with the ACQ, and more concerned with the fasteners.

In his words, it was not the contact, but the penetrating hardware that is the issue.

We're placing the barrier between just in case, but I do like the idea of the spray-on rubber - quick and easy.

His other solution was to just buy everything in stainless... then he offerend me a handy sub-prime loan to cover the cost of all of my hardware!

[mrd999]

Consider a borate-treated sill plate. Much less corrosive than other treatments, but can only be used in areas not subjected to water. The borates leach out with water.

I've had trouble getting my hands on any, but I'm sure it's possible for the determined. I think iLevel sill plates are treated with borates.

[Lavrans]

Originally Posted by jepaulsen

His other solution was to just buy everything in stainless... then he offerend me a handy sub-prime loan to cover the cost of all of my hardware!

Really, stainless isn't that bad, especially when you factor in the cost of prepping everything. The nail part really is a big factor, and I've been using stainless for anything into ACQ. Funny part is that Simpson used to not want you to mix stainless with galvanized, but they have changed their tune over the past couple years.

[TSJHD1]

Originally Posted by jepaulsen

Here's the situation:

Interested in everyone elses take on this.

Thanks

Isn't that strap made from some pretty heavy gauge metal? Man, how many years will you be dead before that strap could react enough with the ACQ to cause a problem? We are wasting SO MUCH money on all this "prevent this" and "protect that" stuff... There just comes a point (already has, a long time ago, as far as I'm concerned) when it's just too much already!! It all costs money.

Man I want to go build somewhere where we aren't so regulated, and be able to make my own, albeit informed and educated, decisions. But make them based on MY criteria.

Take treated lumber as used for sill plates, for example. If we have a poured-in-place concrete foundation, with bolts, and a metal termite shield with its edges bent down 90°, carefully installed, and the foundation is chemically treated before the footings are placed, then why can't we simply use a good quality wood grade and species that is NOT treated with some chemical, that is probably ultimately gonna cause us more problems than it solves anyway, like leaching into our water supply...who knows. I sincerely believe a #1 SYP or Doug/Hem Fir, NOT treated, would be fine.

And doesn't metal on the foundation satisfy the requirement for a termite shield anyway? Iow, then using a treated plate is redundant.

Tom