Full mortise door sweeps

[WilliamBonetto]

Has anyone used the full mortise door sweeps that drop down as you close the door? I am finishing up a door on my own house and would like to do a flat, clean looking threshold. The door is all sapeli 2 1/4" thick so I have plenty of meat to mortise into. I have been looking around on the Pemco.com website. They seem to be the brand to use. Looking for any comments good or bad.

Thanks
Bill Bonetto
Bonetto's Carpentry

[Dick Seibert]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

I am building a home now and am going to be doing that, I've used Pemko for many years and have never been all that satisfied with them, I've started to research them and found this and am going to be calling them. I'm also open to suggestions about seals other than Pemko, unless Pemko has improved in recent years.

[dave_k]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

I've used Pemko and KC Crowder, both brands are very similar. In our climate the aren't typically used on exterior doors, they are usually used for sound insulation and in lab applications in conjunction with negative air pressure to keep noxious vapours contained. I wouldn't guarantee that you could get a positive weather seal using them on an exterior door, I certainly wouldn't recommend it. I guess a lot would depend on the rest of the threshold assembly as well as how sheltered the door is. Others may have more experience using them in that application.

[Overbuilders]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

...I certainly wouldn't recommend it.

Nor would I. Very, very finicky when used in an indoor application. Can only imagine how it performs on an exterior door. Which model?

http://www.pemko.com/index.cfm?event...ductMaterialId

[joseph]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

I have used them a few times in the Napa Valley .I think they are fun to install and when done right work well . What are the complaints with them ?

[dave_k]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

I have used them a few times in the Napa Valley .I think they are fun to install and when done right work well . What are the complaints with them ?

In out climate they would have to seal against wind drivin rain and snow. In winter you get accumulations of snow, slush and ice on the threshold which would get into the mechanism and keep it from working freely. In my experience even a little bit of grit can hang up the mechanism, ice salt and shush would do it in for sure.

A bit of snow or ice on the threshold would also mean the seal could stop at that point leaving a gap at the threshold. On a stormy day you could easily have a snow drift accumulating through a 1/8" gap under the door.

[Dick Seibert]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

Dave:

I've got a real problem with Canadian door suppliers understanding our codes, I recently asked if Canada had an ADA and he told me that it was a Provincial thing and nothing like ours, apparently you are more concerned about air sealing and we are more concerned about tripping hazards and handicap accessibility, in both our cases for legal liability reasons. Basically we can't have a threshold that sticks up more than ½" in residences and ¼" in any occupancy open to the public, so sometimes a retractable air seal is the only practical way to go. In my case I'm working with them to modify their thresholds to meet our requirements, a good rule of thumb is a guy in a wheelchair has to be able to effortlessly roll through a doorway without going over a hump, or your going to get sued.

[dave_k]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

Dave:

I've got a real problem with Canadian door suppliers understanding our codes, I recently asked if Canada had an ADA and he told me that it was a Provincial thing and nothing like ours, apparently you are more concerned about air sealing and we are more concerned about tripping hazards and handicap accessibility,

barrier free design (You call it ADA we call it barrier free) isn't really required for single family residential. I say isn't really required because a residence over a certain size (6000 SF ??) has to be designed under a different part of the building code and barrier free access may be required in those cases. You'd have to ask an architect exactly when it kicks in.

We are very concerned with the building envelope because of the extreme climate we experience in some parts of the country and the detrimental effect that warm moist air can have on a building and occupants in a heating climate like ours can be very destructive and bad for the health if it isn't done with care and knowledge. It's been quite a learning curve over the last 30 years.

Basically we can't have a threshold that sticks up more than ½" in residences and ¼" in any occupancy open to the public, so sometimes a retractable air seal is the only practical way to go.

We have similar requirements if the occupancy type requires barrier free travel. We have other ways of dealing with it though, on account of the unsuitability of auto door bottoms to deal with winter weather. I have used them as an air barrier in arenas going from the cold space into heated offices. No slush and ice in there though.

[Dick Seibert]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

We have similar requirements if the occupancy type requires barrier free travel. We have other ways of dealing with it though, on account of the unsuitability of auto door bottoms to deal with winter weather

Dave:

How do you deal with it? I don't need ADA on this home but I want it because we moderate climate Californians like to live outdoors and value the free traffic flow from indoors to outdoors without tripping over thresholds, and I don't want the liability of somebody tripping over my thresholds. Do you have a link to a better system?

[dave_k]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

Dave:

How do you deal with it? I don't need ADA on this home but I want it because we moderate climate Californians like to live outdoors and value the free traffic flow from indoors to outdoors without tripping over thresholds, and I don't want the liability of somebody tripping over my thresholds. Do you have a link to a better system?

I don't know of a better system for what you are doing. In our climate we get around thresholds in commercial building using a heated air lock foyer with a foot grill to deal with the slush. We also use flat aluminum thresholds with brush type sweeps. That's usually on aluminum storefront doors.

I have to say I envy the living outdoor lifestyle. I do my best, barbecuing on the grill and baking in a wood fired oven all winter but it's not the same. I don't have any solutions for your application, a lot of people have window wall opening glazing systems installed but they are used 3 seasons at best. I imagine you have similar products available down there and probably a lot more than are available here. If I tried to use a system like that up here in the winter there's a good chance I'd have a 3' snow drift in my living room by the end of the day.

[Overbuilders]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

I have used them a few times in the Napa Valley .I think they are fun to install and when done right work well . What are the complaints with them ?

They almost never stay properly adjusted. Automatic door bottoms were designed for interior use with heavier commercial doors swinging in HM frames. And a commercial door closer, which can be adjusted to apply swifter latching action to push the bolt that activates the mechanism. Add wind, blowing dust and dirt into a greased mechanism set in an exterior door bottom, and well...

[Dick Seibert]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

Richie:

I'll pose the same question to you that I posed to Dave, if you had to use one which one woujld you use? I've put in hundreds of Pemkos and would like something better.

[Overbuilders]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

Which auto door bottom would I use - or - a different hardware solution for air barrier?

[Dick Seibert]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

Some way to seal the bottom of a door to comply with code when you want the transition to be level in a very expensive home.

[Overbuilders]

Re: Full mortise door sweeps

Good question. I don't like auto door bottoms. They're required for creating separation zones in case of fire/smoke between wings of large public buildings like hospitals and schools. I've only installed the Pemko and they never quite functioned as advertized, especially when combined with coordinators, hold opens, etc. Pemko does show a new, low closing force door bottom on their website. Maybe you should guinea pig it for us.

http://products.construction.com/Man...oms-NST10819-p

Don't you like brush weatherstrips? They make them for door bottoms.

http://products.construction.com/Man...rip-NST10820-P