ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

[RJFDEVELOPMENT]

I have been using advantic floor and wall for years and love the product , so I thought I would try the zip system. I used the zip wall first and didnt like it, first of all its not the same product as advantic wall they used a different material its much softer and breaker very easy. Edgers are very soft and you must us care. All cut edges that can get wet must be taped because it will swell alot then they say to keep nails flush well with a nail gun that imposable because of the wood that your nailing to density is different as you nail some soft some a little harder. No matter how much you play with the regulator. Some go flush some to deep some sticking out. So stay with the advantic 1/2" wall not zip. Now the roof zip I thought was better than the wall but I was wrong, if you have a big roof and don't tape the seams before it rains the seams will swell. Also you have the same problem with the nailing as with the zip wall.If you have nailed it and just pierced the coating it will swell and look like you shot it to deep and have no holding left, I don't think I will be using the zip system again.

[Tim Uhler]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

Can you give us more info? And break up the post into paragraphs.

I've used Zip a few times and we will use it on the project we poured the founation for this week. I love it. The panels are made with the same glue (MDO?) as the subfloor so it is stiffer and feels denser than regular OSB. It wears out router bits and saw blades more quickly.

I'll try and get a picture the next time we use it. After cutting it for one roof (100 sheets ish) the color was worn off the blade at the depth we were using.

[ThingOfBeauty]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

We just used Zip on a modular house, (more accurately the modular company used zip on our house!), and I was not in love.
The panels seemed OK in tems of strength, and we didn't have any issues with swelling. Most of the seams were taped before any rain.
I thought the directions said nails were OK whether flush or overdriven. The factory must have had depth-of-drive nailpieces because they nails were almost all flush anyway.
My problems were with the tape. No matter how hard we tried we couldn't keep out every wrinkle. Also when vertical tape is run first, there's a little gap where horizontal pieces cross it on each side as the horizontal bumps up over the vertical. Both situations leave little gaps. If the tape is your only weather protection at seams, and every nail hole can let in water, it just doesn't seem all that well protected.
We ran felt over the whole house as a WRB.
Having said all that, I would bet these are among the tightest walls we've ever built, and they were more watertight sooner than with conventional sheathing, also looks 100x better until you side it, so it's not all bad or anything. I would just say no savings on WRB, and I personally would not use Zip as the only weather defense.

[Tim Uhler]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

We just used Zip on a modular house, (more accurately the modular company used zip on our house!), and I was not in love.
The panels seemed OK in tems of strength, and we didn't have any issues with swelling. Most of the seams were taped before any rain.
I thought the directions said nails were OK whether flush or overdriven. The factory must have had depth-of-drive nailpieces because they nails were almost all flush anyway.
My problems were with the tape. No matter how hard we tried we couldn't keep out every wrinkle. Also when vertical tape is run first, there's a little gap where horizontal pieces cross it on each side as the horizontal bumps up over the vertical. Both situations leave little gaps. If the tape is your only weather protection at seams, and every nail hole can let in water, it just doesn't seem all that well protected.
We ran felt over the whole house as a WRB.
Having said all that, I would bet these are among the tightest walls we've ever built, and they were more watertight sooner than with conventional sheathing, also looks 100x better until you side it, so it's not all bad or anything. I would just say no savings on WRB, and I personally would not use Zip as the only weather defense.

Did you use the J-Roller? We had a laminate J-Roller and when we got the Zip roller, things went a lot better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az3yq0b28uU

[Allan Edwards]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

Tim, we just used Zip Wall on a house because they are offering a $3/per sheet rebate. We did not use Zip Roof, price was too high. In fact the house is on this facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/322-E-...41225972574412

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/322...41225972574412

[mike maines]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

We've used ZIP on quite a few projects, with good luck so far for the most part. The seams swell if they get wet, and some of us are just more comfortable with a WRB that can be integrated with flashing without relying on butyl tape.

It's less of an issue on roofs and it is nice how quickly a ZIP-sheathed house can get dried in. On a house we're starting now we decided to go with ZIP on the roof and cdx on the walls. Price was similar for either material.

[Mlandry]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

Interesting discussion, I have a second level project coming up that I need to get the roof
dried in as soon as possible. Can I plan on the roof system keeping rain out until we get
the roofing on? I have never used the product before.

Mike

[Tim Uhler]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

Interesting discussion, I have a second level project coming up that I need to get the roof
dried in as soon as possible. Can I plan on the roof system keeping rain out until we get
the roofing on? I have never used the product before.

Mike

Yes if you tape the seams and at the ridge. The first time we used it on the roof (1 year ago) we got heavy rains on top of the Zip Roof and in two spots a few drips. When I got on the roof I could see that I hadn't gotten the tape flat.

If you do use the product, get the Zip J-roller. It works very well.

[Allan Edwards]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

Nailing pattern, before tape is applied.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Allan270.../6/dnwV4bSvGsI

[John B]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

Allan,
I like this video too ;--)
http://www.youtube.com/user/Allan270...38/5UJiLr9ZlFE

[Ted S.]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

Allan,
I like this video too ;--)
http://www.youtube.com/user/Allan270...38/5UJiLr9ZlFE

So I am assuming the framing inspection must occur before you tape the joints?

I used both the roof and wall systems 2-3 years ago and we taped it as we went. Got the inspection with the tape on, no problems but I have not built since. But I can see how that would be an issue.

Take for example the lot line on Allans job, you would need access other than ladders at some point, so now you need to sheath, get inspections, then tape. Seams like sometimes framers should install the tape and sometimes the siders should install it depending on access, inspections and the sequencing issues they create.

[ThingOfBeauty]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

Did you use the J-Roller? We had a laminate J-Roller and when we got the Zip roller, things went a lot better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az3yq0b28uU

We used the zip tape application contraption, which worked very well, and has its own roller which made it very easy to roll as you go and touch up without putting down your tool.

We also got the separate roller which is another very nice tool. The rubber roller part has that diamond pattern on it and is much softer than a laminate roller, definitely better for tape. I can see myself using that Zip roller on all knids of flashing tapes.

Still had little fishmouths, if you wrinkle the tape it just can't really seal totally flat. I wrinkled maybe once every 20-30 feet. Maybe you get better and have fewer wrinkles later. Overlaps also had small but visible gaps. There are overlaps and wrinkles all over the house, so at the end of the day, even if you trust the tape to last as long as the wall, there are still weaknesses, in my opinion.

If you do use another WRB like we did, I would say it's probably a lot better than an un-coated, un-taped OSB wall. But it's certainly more expensive.

[gbruzze1]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

Yes if you tape the seams and at the ridge.

Tim,

Are you just taping the ridge temporarily until the roofing goes on? I ask this in terms of air circulation and a ridge vent. Butt the boards tight at the ridge, tape and then cut the sheathing back when the roof goes on?

[Tim Uhler]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

Tim,

Are you just taping the ridge temporarily until the roofing goes on? I ask this in terms of air circulation and a ridge vent. Butt the boards tight at the ridge, tape and then cut the sheathing back when the roof goes on?

I did tape the ridge on the first project we did so that all the subs could put their penetrations through before the roofers came. I wouldn't do that again, I'd just cover the ridge with something else. I'm not as big a fan of the product on the roof, but I love it on the walls.

7-12 and lower for the roof makes the taping go really fast. But we tried it on a 12-12 roof and because of the need for toe boards it seemed as though the labor went way up. We don't need as much to stand on to sheathe as we would for taping.

We may use it on the job we are starting this week. Its a 6-12, but it'll depend on the owner. We are on the water, but we have trees blocking the weather side of the house.

[John B]

Re: ZIP SYSTEM (problems)

Allan,
I like this video too ;--)
http://www.youtube.com/user/Allan270...38/5UJiLr9ZlFE

Allan,
I had to chuckle when you realized that the Panels were not upside down ;--)

I did notice that on the vertical panel joints the nails looked to be 1.5 + inches apart.
Does this mean that you are adding a stud at every Panel Joint?