Boron Termite Treatment

[Kelly]

I stopped including termite pre-treatment of foundation SOG back when the EPA banned the use of Chlordane. Give the customer the option to do anything they choose in that area.

Current customer's regular pest control person sold her on treatment of all exposed framing (well, some of the exposed framing) with a water-borne Boron solution. I have heard of this from my own pest control people, but have never used it.

Some of the claims made to my customer sounded a bit far-fetched to me:

1. Within "six months to a year" the chemical will have penetrated completely through all the 2X material that it was sprayed on.

2. He really only needed to spray two feet above the slab level for the treatment to be effective, but he would spray all the walls anyway (didn't think he needed to spray any of the fascia or soffits from the outside until I suggested it might be a good idea - then it was).

3. Only needed to spray one side of the plywood sheathing on the exterior walls (inside) to be effective.

Now, perhaps all this is true, but some of it doesn't make too much sense to me given that I was told the insect must actually eat some of the chemical to suffer the ultimate consequence.

Like to hear from some who have real knowledge and/or experience with this.

CX

[Mike O'Handley]

Hi Kelly,

Sounds like they're talking about either BoraCare or TimBor. Probably BoraCare though, because of the description of how it will penetrate. Either product is pretty effective.

BoraCare is about 20% borate by volume while TimBor is about 10%. BoraCare comes in liquid form and is cut 1/1 with water and applied wet. Because it is a Borate/Glycerin mixture, it is able to diffuse deeper into the wood - up to 1-1/2inches.

TimBor comes in powder form and is mixed with water and applied with a pump sprayer. It doesn't have the penetration of BoraCare but costs about 80% less than BoraCare.

Borates are toxic to all forms of fungi and insects, but only as toxic to humans as table salt. So, in addition to preventing insect attack, this product can basically innoculate the framing against mold infestation.

Subterranean termite nests depend on workers that go to the surface and gather food, bring it back to the nest and feed the drones and queen. Kill off the workers, and the nest dies. Borates screw up the digestive tract of insects so they can't digest their food and they die. This is the same basic principal as the Sentricon stakes use.

Inside a wall cavity, these products will probably last indefinitely. Outside, they only last a year or so, until wettings from rain and snowfall gradually cause dissipation of the borate.

Want to know more? Check out the website below.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike O'Handley
hausdok@msn.com




Wood Care Systems

[Troy P]

You can search this forum for "Boracare" or "borates" for earlier discussions of this method of termite treatment. I am in the process of renovating a house that had extensive termite damage and took it upon myself to learn more about termites than I ever wanted to know. I was convinced enough to use Boracare as my primary means of termite defense. I also had the foundation pretreatment done before pouring the slab for the addition that I built, but that was primarily done to satisfy any future buyer who may not have faith in the borate treament and who may wish to have the perimeter soil treament done.
In addition to the boax and boric acid, Boracare also contains glycol penetrants to allow the borates to diffuse fully into the wood that is treated. Paul Fisette brings up the fact that the adhesives used in plywood between the venneers aren't water soluble and may prevent the diffusion throughout the panel. I elected to use OSB sheathing that was treated with borates during manufacture. The product that I used was Louisiana Pacific's Smart Guard OSB. A neighbor gave me a bottle of chlordane and I even considered using it where the greatest amount of termite damage and infestation was but have decided not to. I haven't decided whether or not to use it in where the bathtub traps are at the slab. If I did use it, I would make sure that it was only applied well below the level that would be disturbed in the event that the tub traps were ever in need of being replaced. I also understand that termites need to eat the treated wood in order to be killed, but have read on the manufacturer's website that in ongoing studies, treated wood has not even been tunneled over by termites seeking wood that hasn't been treated.


http://www.nisuscorp.com

[charles]

Troy, the reason termites won't tunnel over the borate-treated wood is because the moisture in their mud tunnels causes the borate to be drawn out of the wood into the tunnels. Therefore the termites do not have to eat the treated wood to be killed.

[Troy P]

Makes sense to me. I'd been wondering about that for a little while. From what I've learned, termiticides that kill the little buggers without them knowing that it'll kill em are much more effective. Barrier treatments in the soil that repel termites before killing them have the drawback that if the barrier is broken (by landscaping, digging animals, rain runoff, or poor application) the termites will eventually find the breach by trial and error. When I heard about the failure of termites to tunnel over treated wood, it seemed that they were repelled, which was different from what I thought I knew about borate treated wood. I wondered why they would eat it at all if they were repelled. What I had learned was that when they injested the borates, the micro ogranisms in their digestive tracts that allowed them to digest the celluose were killed off, causing them in turn to die. The process took several days, which is ideal for an effective termite treament. I'd read where some soil treatments that didn't repel termites but killed them upon contact were only slightly more effective than ones that repelled them because the termites would avoid areas where there were lots of dead and decaying termites. So that they could eventually find a break in the treatment if it existed. Kelly didn't say where he was, but if he's in an area where Formosan termites are found, then treating the soffits and fascia isn't a bad idea since they can exist in a nest without soil contact as long as they have a source of moisture. Since Boracare is at least $100/gal., I treated all wood to about 3 ft from the slab, paid special attention to corners, and of course am using everything that I've learned on this website to deny them any source of moisture.

[Kelly]

Many thanks for the responses guys. I apologize for not doing a search first. Just didn't recall a discussion of the product at all.

Troy:

I'm in South Texas (circa San Antonio). Honestly don't know if we have the Formosan variety. Will ask my pest guy next time I see him.

Seems like the guy who did the treatment for my customer wasn't so much of a shyster as I admit I had suspected. Just didn't seem sufficiently knowledgeable to instill any confidence.

I also don't know which form of the Boron he used. Have asked my customer to check. Also don't know what she paid for the service. What is the usual cost for that treatment? Is it based on square footage of footprint like the old pre-treatments were?

Having read more about it now, I'm inclined to start recommending it to my customers.

CX

[Troy P]

I'm not sure how much the treatment would cost, only the price of the product and the approximate coverage to expect. I could have purchased the product locally for about $120/gal but was able to find it online for right over $100. Oops, just checked and the place I ordered it from is up to $116/gal. They do offer to match anyone else's price however and provide free shipping. I'll post the link below. Bora-Care is mixed 1:1 with water. The lable tells how many board feet can be treated with each gallon but I don't have it handy. I was able to treat the outside wall studs and sill on a 1500 sf house with two gallons of Bora-Care. I treated the studs to about 4 ft. and had enough left over on the secon gallon to go back and treat the corners and door jambs with a second application as per instuctions. My treatment cost me about $210 for the Boracare, $15 for the sprayer, and about an hour and a half to mix and apply. The cost of a treatment would depend on the product used and on the amount of wood treated. As Mike pointed out, Tim-Bor, by the same manufacturer, is much cheaper but doesn't contain the glycol penetrants. Let us know which product was used. I also remember a link, from the earlier dicussions on this forum, to a boatbuilder who gives a recipe for mixing your own. Since I'm going to sell the house, I wanted to have product information to show prospective buyers who might be aware of the previous termite damage or want to know about how the house had been treated. I mentioned that I also used OSB that had been treated with borates during manufacture. According to an architect friend of mine, he was able to locate a source of framing lumber that has been pre-treaded also.


http://www.pestspecialists.com/html/boracare__page.html

[Kelly]

Mmmmm. This fella was spraying with his truck-mounted sprayer and going all the way up into the rafters and soffit voids. If he charged her by the gallon at the prices you suggest, there could be many hundreds of dollars worth of wet spots there.

I'll let you know what I find out on the cost.

By your method, Troy, it does add up to a really cost-effective treatment. Especially compared to the cost of foundation pre-treats I had done in past, and sounds like a more effective method of prevention too.

CX

[Mike O'Handley]

Hi Kelly,

I believe current cost of a BoraCare application is about $1. a square foot in these parts. With TimBor, about $.20 a square foot.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike O'Handley
hausdok@msn.com

[Kelly]

Boy, that's a real spread, Mike. Is that for the application just two or three feet above foundation grade, or sprayed all over as I saw done here?

A year or so on these forums seems to indicate that your Left Coast prices (at least the South Left Coast) are substantially higher for most everything than I see here, but the spread should be similar I would think.

Guess it would take more research to explain to the customers whether one type would really be five times as effective as the other, or that it would be more cost effective to go with the lower-priced method.

More complications, just what we need.

CX

[Troy P]

Mike, in New Orleans almost all new construction is slab on grade. With that, I feel confident with my treatment of all of the outside walls and the walls directly adjacent to any plumbing penetrations. If I were to bid a similar job for treatment, I'd price it by lineal ft to be treated. For a raised foundation I guess that square foot pricing would be the way to go if all that was treated were floor joists and decking. Treating all of the framing would have to depend on the total amount to be treated. Kelly from what I've read, the borates will diffuse to areas of moisture throughout their presence in the wood. I would be concerned, however, about their ability to diffuse fully into kiln dried lumber without the help of penetrants such as the glycol in Boracare. As mentioned in their literature, so far as I know, only Boracare has been evaluated by the Southern Building Codes Congress Intl. as an alternative to soil treatments. Around here, foundation pre-treatments are followed up with a perimeter soil treatment after construction is substantially complete. I went ahead with the foundation pre-treat which cost me $.15/sf and passed on the perimeter soil treatment which would have cost another $400 and would have to be repeated every five years of so. I may spring for another gallon of Boracare before I close the walls in, but I doubt it since I've already treated everything according to the directions given.

[Mike O'Handley]

Hi Kelly,

I would agree with Troy's comments regarding effectiveness. The glycerin is the vehicle that helps diffuse the product deep into the wood(along with water). Concentrations of borate differ in these two products, with BoraCare having about twice the concentration of borate that TimBor does, so I would use BoraCare for those applications where I wanted deep penetration and I wasn't able to readily re-treat, ie. framing.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike O'Handley
hausdok@msn.com

[Rob Amaral`]

I believe that one of those firms that make the borate stuff has a product which can tell you if the stuff has penetrated, etc. Changes a blood-red color I believe. Could confirm depth of penetration if you cut into piece of wood, etc.

Some kind if liquid reactant you apply after the borate solution is applied...

[Mike O'Handley]

Hi Rob,

Good to see more of the fellows from the ASHI boards visiting once in a while. I hadn't heard about a reactant way to confirm penetration. I think I'll check it out.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike O'Handley
hausdok@msn.com

[Kelly]

Mike:

Please to let us know if you find that stuff, I'd really be curious to test this current job. Maybe give me some reference for future recommendation on using the treatment.

C(curious minds always want to know)X