Building $cience

[Dutchman]

Is it just me noticing it or does anyone else see that all of a sudden, everyone is a Building Scientist?

Years ago when I first joined this forum and really started paying attention to better building practices and learning from Building Scientists Dr. Joe, etc), there were only a few of those professionals out there.

These days, it's seems like they have popped up everywhere like realtors do when houses are selling like hot cakes.

I guess if we have the basics of building figured out (like the "Perfect Wall"...all done right?), we need to come up with other tactics to create a career.

Just had to vent that. I'm tired of getting updates from LinkedIn from the Building Science Community I joined that discuss and re-discuss that same crap Building Science Corp figured out ten years ago. I know, it evolves, but c'mon, some of it is a dead horse.

[IndyDog]

Re: Building $cience

we need to come up with other tactics to create a career.

You just described most of America. I mentioned to my wife the other day that her BMW has more stupid sh#$ in it than anything I've ever seen. Most of it is garbage, stuff you don't need. Same goes for most cars. Love getting in my F250 with a couple of knobs...if it's too hot I turn it to the left, too cold I turn it to the right. Try that in an Audi or BMW...you'll crash into a tree trying to figure it out.

Same goes with any product these days...does my oven really need a computer chip in it? Every time it breaks (twice in 8 years) I have to spend $450 for a new module. What ever happened to a thermostat?

Some of our tools are BS too. Too much this and two much that. I recently chucked my 10" laser gizmo dual wack-a-doodle Makita SCMS for a 7 1/2" single bevel NO FEATURES Makita regular dumb saw that blows away the feature laden marketing gaga monster.

So...to add to your rant, too many people justifying their jobs by creating meaningless stuff.

Ugh...this thread hit a note with me...sorry but I can relate :))

[Bill Robinson]

Re: Building $cience

I think if it was all figured out Dr Joe would shut the biz down.

And in fact he is going bigger and stronger than ever.

Stuff "we figured out" sometimes turned out to be wrong.

Picture this, I am at JLC Providence now.

There will be probably 5 different presenters doing window installation, me included.

And for the most part, all of seats will be filled.

This has been going on for years.

Haven't we already figured this out by now?
Apparently not.

And for what it is worth, I am a titled building science educator for LSU AgCenter.

Not a building scientist but a building science educator.

Go figure.

[Ted S.]

Re: Building $cience

Is it just me noticing it or does anyone else see that all of a sudden, everyone is a Building Scientist?

I've been saying this for a couple years. Everybody is a Building scientist now, its easy to become, only takes a week and $2k. Then they start regurgitating all the stuff from the blogs.

[Jason Laws]

Re: Building $cience

I wonder what the proper definition of a Building Scientist is?

Is it like one of those fancy terms that you give for an otherwise basic job, as in refuse removal tech (the garbage man)?

Sometimes I feel like I should walk around with some bubbling test tubes and goggles, and then, I too, would be a Building Scientist.

I am all for better building practices, air sealing, etc., but I think sometimes our high tech world is trying to turn carpentry into something that it isn't.

And if JLC Live wasn't so far away, I would like to go too, so......there is still much I can learn to do better but don't turn our trade into something strange and require all of us to follow it.

And yes, so many tools have so many gimmicks that we don't need. There really isn't anything wrong with simplicity and making your brain work......now where did my calculator go?

Jason Laws
Plain In Maine
Amity, Maine

[dgbldr]

Re: Building $cience

I wonder what the proper definition of a Building Scientist is?

A person incapable of obtaining and keeping a real job.

[CASHCOW]

Re: Building $cience

I love this site, you guys like to get the BS out on the table…. The term “Building Scientist” in this industry is a misnomer, just like the terms Green, IAQ, Sustainability.

This subject strikes a nerve so get ready for one of my long post and if you don’t want to read it don’t.

I obtained my Bachelor’s of Science degree in Aerospace Engineering back in 1984 after obtaining my FAA aircraft mechanic license, after working in construction as a tradesmen (framing and foundations as a teen) and race car mechanic. Since then over the past 30 years plus I have had a “real” job in real Engineering firms on teams with all kinds of “real” scientist around me as a Design Engineer, doing real designs-builds that are tested and proven in the field, in the fields of aircraft, automotive, power-sports, and homes, in jobs all around this country in many US cities. I have a different perspective than most Engineers that I am hired for as a consultant these days due to my hands on or “build experience”. At age 55, I’m now semi-retired helping my son develop his construction business and career.

I started with nothing, poor family, barely graduated with only basic math and science with a 2.0 GPA since I screwed up in HS. Got my degree while I watched all my high school buddies continue to party so there is no excuse, in this country anyone can work hard to earn a title, and that IS where it starts, always, always will in this country with an Education. Without it, any other industry I have worked in you cannot even get in the door, you resume gets thrown in the trash. The reason is based on corporate America experience and standards, if you are not educated in Engineering and Science, unless you are exceptional, you will not be able to communicate with peers, and companies will not pay you the high salaries for trash, some laws prohibit the non-degreed. Engineer’s and Scientist (design, chem, physics, etc majors) back in the 80’s got paid what layers and doctors did, but due to outsourcing and the latest politics their value has declined which is unfortunate. Yes, many cannot get jobs since other countries work for less, even from across seas, ruining the incentives for the next generation to get degrees and an education.

There is nothing more insulating to many degreed engineers and scientist to watch people with drafting or mechanic skills call themselves Engineers and Scientist. Construction is the only industry I have ever seen trades people give themselves such a title as “Scientist” which in other industries requires the highest level of math and science education and experience….these guys are usually chemist, physics, metallurgist, material scientist, etc….NEVER a mechanic or carpenter – absurd! Again, a manager looking at a resume with such credentials would laugh, HR would never submit it for consideration or get fired if they did. So why does the construction industry get away with it? Anyone can write blogs and post like on GBA, with the credentials of carpenter having never worked for a firm or company of their own that produced monitored tested proven designs, and title themselves as a “scientist” What a joke and an insult to the Architect, PE, Chemist, etc. that earned the title and right to be paid for their skills.

Not to say that trades persons and builders are not a great asset to the design-build process. That term came about along with “Design Build Team” or “Integrated Product Team” (developed not by the construction industry it still has a long way to go) since the days of stupid egotistical engineers or architects throwing designs over the fence that they have no idea how to build needed to end. That happen in other industries about 20 years ago, but from what I can tell still is an issue in this one. I am on a huge job now as a Production Manager where the Architect never visits the job site and you can see by the drawings that this senior level has no hands on experience. There is a drawing philosophy today that has been around over a decade that solves this by integrating the drawing and production processes called “design as build” …or you design and build to the print, there is no separate production planning paper it is an integral part of the views and sections on the drawing, page by page. In other words, it forces the Architect to talk to trades person to determine a build plan before the drawing ever gets to the job site. The job I am now has a prime production manager doing this that never had a plan, is incapable of creating one, he has a hard time figuring out the design to develop one, so I am consulting. It is a mess!

These production types that are critical to the design-build process especially in mass production are not “scientist” they and “Builders or Manufacturing Engineers”, again scientist wear white coats and work in labs developing material properties for Engineers to design to. Builder’s play a large role in making sure the design can be built cost effectively, period! I have been hired in many firms as both a Design Engineer and Manufacturing Engineer, there is a huge difference. As a ME I try and lean out the assembly line, create tooling, ease of operations, work with the mechanics get their inputs. As a Design Engineer I have a different network consisting of “real” scientist, labs, etc.

After seeing all the BS and confusion in construction, people that falsely give themselves a title they are not qualified for, I decided to not only give myself the usual title of “Design-Build Engineer” I am hired into firms as a Senior Consultant to perform at a nice salary, but to add the “Building Scientist” to my title since this is what this industry relates to. I’d post my resume, it in itself is confusing with all sorts of real job experience in structures, and systems design (environmental control systems (ECS, HVAC), fuel, hydraulics, electrical, etc…you can look me up on Linkedin for a summary. I however am admitting I am not a “scientist” and know my limits but, I do now when I need one that is the difference. The Chemistry behind what I am currently researching for our design is challenging and I am reaching out to chemist. I do have an ability to get a lot of it since I took Chem 2 at the University long ago.

Joe L and the authors of a book named “Breathable Walls” by George Swanson (Engineer), Oram Miller (Building Biologist) and Wayne Federer (Master Chemist), all three have built many, I respect and that is where it ends so far. Read it and you will see we do not have it all figured out, or we had long ago in part, then it got screwed up! I am finding there take on building materials like magnesium, human factors engineering, and biology very fascinating and accurate. From my perspective, and thiers, there is A LOT of room for improvement in the current norm way we design-build today which is pretty much a mess with open opportunities for “real” Engineers that know how to tap into resources like “Scientist” and “Builders” to make a killing! $ . Yes I and many are attracted to the opportunities. In my local area it is going to be difficult for builders to compete with my credentials and yes I hope that will push more business to us. We are working on getting me on the website now, and I have started to write blogs to join the club, market my knowledge, why not I earned it.

If the outcome is that these so called “Building Scientist” are pushed aside by more educated, experienced, engineers, chemist, etc. or into capacities they belong than perhaps it will be for the better of the building industry. No one person in any other building industry knows it all, but yet it seems we have some “Green Building Advisors” and others that like to make people think they do for profit, right! If they have the right to titles, I most certainly do to.

Perhaps as things continue to get out of hand with sick building’s getting sealed that cause health issues new laws will require the proper education an experience to give design advice, like most industries. Then people won’t be able to give free advice (most of which is inaccurate any qualified Engineer or Scientist can see) on forums. Then advisor's will have some real skin in the game like Architects, PE’s that need E&O high cost insurance. Then perhaps the disclaimers most sites have stating that the advice given holds them harmless won’t work anymore, and perhaps all sites, “Advisors” and “Posters” will be held accountable as in law suits just like every other industry. The profits for free will be over, because if you profit from advice you are accountable regardless of disclaimers. The “title” held means nothing in court, if you give bad advice that causes bodily harm that is all a prosecuting attorney needs. I think some use the disclaimers as a scare tactic, when in reality if you act as an Engineer or Scientist there may be no way out when you get your day in court. We have that issues at the current job I am on, I am asked for my professional engineering opinions on design matters, and we are asked to deviate from the drawings and I refuse, as much as I’d love to comment on the screwed up design I do not since my attorney has advised me otherwise. I am not licensed in the state to act in that capacity, nor am I insured. Stroking ones ego and showing off knowledge, titles, can come at a price I don’t want to pay.

Next up Chad tells me "to take my long post and go home"..sorry buddy, relax, detailed thinking comes with career, after 30 years it is difficult to change, so does a bad ability to write since I like most good Engineers and Scientist did not major in English, or communications. Simplifying, putting it into words, not over thinking, is real challenge. The marking's of a true engineer/scientist, lots of words or lots of real math and science, you choose :)

[IndyDog]

Re: Building $cience

Gee...I wonder why my mother's 1930's era house is still in pristine condition? It doesn't even have Tyvek or rain screens :)

[Ted S.]

Re: Building $cience

Gee...I wonder why my mother's 1930's era house is still in pristine condition? It doesn't even have Tyvek or rain screens :)

No insulation, high drying potential, durable materials vs processed OSB, etc.

[CASHCOW]

Re: Building $cience

More fun! Entertainment! :)

Right, the people that know what they are doing in this industry don't use plastic house wraps or barriers, or foam.

Forget the "Science" word it's way off - Has anyone ever heard of "Liason Engineering" or "Modification Engineering" or "Field Service Engineering", or how about the professionals most industries have that bridges the gap between Engineers and Builders, for new construction and existing? Why is that so many mods that do not understand the original design intent screw it up! Trying to mate old tech with new that does not work?

Sustainability? What does that mean to this industry? Is it quantified by some value like most that knows exactly where a structural crack will occur or path (as in portland cement concrete), called "crack growth propagation and analysis another feild requiring PE that specialize in this "Science", many others need a redundant path for, where the weakest links are exactly and why? Ever heard of MTTF (Mean Time to Falure)? Mean to replace (MTTR), Mean time to maintenance (MTTM)..."Maintenance and Reliability Engineering and Science" as in your auto maintenance schedule you should follow? Where is it when you buy a home? Well in most Engineering firms there are groups that specialize in that analysis I have worked for and as a "Liaison Engineer", Reliability and Maintenance, "Technical Publications" and know it to a tee! Fatigue cycle life testing and field data is part of it. So what is "Sustainability" in this industry exactly, some cool term like "scientist" someone made up to sell a bunch of BS about how great their design and knowledge is? That never gets monitored or quantified since there is no empirical or test data to design to, or competent persons that has a clue?

Liaison and modification Engineering is much more of a challenge than new design. The pay rates are about $10 hour higher than Design Engineers.

John Straube created a bunch of material data/properties to design to for many natural materials that get ignored by the "Greenies" , another person we should all respect! http://www.buildingscience.com/websi...w-authors-john If you are calling yourself a "Scientist" or anyone else is without his level of education and/or experience you are pretty much a JOKE in the "Scientific" real world!

As a Designer I look to him and builders for certain knowledge as a team effort.