stone veneer info

[m beezo]

I am supposed to talk to a potential customer about doing a stone veneer wall on the exterior of their house. I am guessing that each maker has some requirements about how and what to do. But I do not know if we are just talking or if the decision has been finalized.

What I am looking for is some general information about the product before I meet with them just so I know a bit about the process. It would be going over some existing OSB exterior sheathing. So info on things like suitable materials to glue the stuff to, water proofing details, can you use the stuff around existing windows.

[Allan Edwards]

Re: stone veneer info

Beez:

Are you installing real stone veneer or faux stone? By real stone I mean actually stone sliced to 1"-2" in thickness, applied to a wall.

[Scott Jameson]

Re: stone veneer info

<www.masonryveneer.org/pdf/MVMA Installation Guide_3rd Edition_Final.pdf>

[Bill Robinson]

Re: stone veneer info

Beezo, the biggest issue is the layering of the weather-resistive barrier.

It will require 2 layers and the penetration flashing, windows, doors and plumbing, needs to be flashed to the first layer.

It is similar to how 3-coat portland cement stucco should be done.
Not a big deal, just follow the instructions and add a little lagniappe.

[johnny watt]

Re: stone veneer info

I was under the impression that 2" veneer was called "thin stone veneer" and applied directly to the building
And standard 4" to 6" stone was called "stone veneer" and put on with a gap and wall ties and weeps.

[Allan Edwards]

Re: stone veneer info

I was under the impression that 2" veneer was called "thin stone veneer" and applied directly to the building
And standard 4" to 6" stone was called "stone veneer" and put on with a gap and wall ties and weeps.

You are correct.

Regarding thin veneer, we do it quite often and we do a scratch coat on the sheathing, at least 2 WRB behind the scratch coat, and adhesive the thin stone to the scratch coat.

[Ohiobuilder]

Re: stone veneer info

I stopped applying thin stone directly to homes years ago. We lay 3" block with a 1" air space and then apply the stone. Its about the same cost in the end.

[Allan Edwards]

Re: stone veneer info

Most of our stone houses are full width stone, sometimes the thin veneer works better. Like on a chimney that is in the middle of the house. Or a free standing wall, we use CMU and thin stone, sometimes called sliver stone.

[m beezo]

Re: stone veneer info

that is what I am talking about...I just heard stone veneer and have no idea if it is the 1 inch thick or 4 inch thick stuff.

I am a little curious tho. I hear 2 layers of WRB then the stone is applied. I know if I look at the page that is up there it will answer the question. But it seems like sticking it to the WRB is not really a good material to glue to. Same if you put the WRB on then a scratch coat.

That is why I am asking before I go there to talk to them.

[Mark Parlee]

Re: stone veneer info

Beez
I have been busy for the past month

Did you see my article in the JLC on ACMV Oct 2013?

I also had the privilege of reviewing and commenting on the new MVMA 4th edition, Scott posted a link to the third (final) there is a fourth and there will be more after that.

If you don't have my article email me and I will send it.

Faux stone problems will make EIFS problems look like a "tiny drop in the bucket"

http://ncma-br.org/pdfs/masterlibrar...tion%20web.pdf

[m beezo]

Re: stone veneer info

Mark,
I do not recall reading the articles so if you wanted to email them to me I would appreciate it. At this time I will say it is for my own information. I have decided to pass on the job.

Several reasons but mainly because the homeowners seem to "know" how to do the job based on what the guy at the big box stores are telling them. It really amounts to them telling me how to do the job and they seem to have about half of the facts. Other reason is they have had a contractor set the windows in the wall and I see no flashings on them and they are using what appears to be 3/8 OSB for sheathing.

Based on your sentence about the problems to come I plan on moving towards a job I already understand and know I can make money at.

[tomthetoolman40]

Re: stone veneer info

I plan on moving towards a job I already understand and know I can make money at.

Smart man.

[Mark Parlee]

Re: stone veneer info

Beez

just sent you some articles.
let me know what you think.

[Hearthman]

Re: stone veneer info

Check out Dr. Joe Lstiburek at buildingscience.com
He calls it "lumpy stucco" because it is essentially the same. Codes require two layers of grade 'D' building paper then mesh & scratch coat then adhered stone and possibly pointing. One layer must buckle up to create the drainage plane but even this often does not work. OSB is horrible for stucco/ adhered stone and is the subject of much litigation in PA.

Think of all masonry as a big water storage system--a sponge. Where is the water going to dry to? The outdoors or driven by vapor diffusion to the inside? What stops the water when you don't have a drainage plane such as on chimneys? What types of water repellents are approved by the BIA? How do you flash around windows, doors, the base of a fireplace chase, etc? How much of a capillary break do you need from your weep screed? What happens when someone caulks the screed to the roof or moldings? What happens when you run your scratch into the soil instead of leaving a break?

Better do a LOT of research because this stuff is a lawsuit looking for a place to happen.

[gioberg11]

Re: stone veneer info

Mark,

I read your article but it was at the time of publication so I don't recall all details.

Is one solution to install a drainage plane mat behind the ACMV; thus, any water that gets behind the stone and scratch coat drains out?

Thanks

Brian