Are you a subscriber but don’t have an online account?

Register for full online access.

 
 
 
 
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 43 of 43
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Houston & Washington Texas
    Posts
    12,125

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Seibert View Post
    Elastomeric coatings seal up walls trapping moisture in the walls
    Dick

    I don't think elastomeric seals the stucco much less the walls themselves. You might read this article, it is from a contractor in your backyard (San Jose).

    http://www.kenyonweb.com/products/paints_coatings.html
    ============================================

    Twitter

    Houzz

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Martinez, California
    Posts
    14,883

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    Allan:

    From your article:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenyon Plastering
    This procedure is recommended only when stucco cannot be repaired to preserve the stucco finish itself. The most difficult aspect of applying an elastomeric coating is selection of the right product. There must be a thousand elastomers on the market, 932 of which evoke some skepticism!

    The elastomeric coating should be “breathable” – that is, it should not be a vapor barrier. This means a perm rating of more than 6. If the perm rating is l or less, it is a perfect vapor barrier and can create what has been described as the “aquarium effect.”

    The coating must be acrylic. Acrylic is resistant to water, ultra-violet rays of the sun, and does not turn yellow, nor is it affected by water. Some polymers are adversely affected by sun and water.

    A colored stucco finish is preferable, but a reliable good quality elastomeric coating that looks identical to stucco, and is available in any color desired, will assure that cracking does not appear, and will prevent the wall from getting the “wet look” during rainfall.
    The painters' forum that I posted above said that "breathable" elastomeric coatings are new technology.

    The big question is Why the Hell do this? His answer is to bridge cracks, if there are no cracks why do it?

    I've mentioned before that I visited our member John Larson remodeling a $4 million home putting an additional $6 million into it in Palo Alto (the house with solar panels and a $375,000 geothermal system that was supposed to take care of half the homes' utility needs). Another thing that I shook my head on was they were doing a conventional three coat stucco system with the color in the third coat, then they were applying a 4th coat of a Sto coating that was used for EIFS systems, all I could think was that this is going to seal up the walls and the house is going to fail like all the conventional EIFS systems have failed.

    BTW, back in the 90s I wrote a report on an entire tract of home that had failed, the builder applied two coats of stucco then applied an elastomeric coating, the tract builder paid in the neighborhood of $30,000 per home in damages.
    “It is not an endlessly expanding list of rights —the “right” to an education; the “right” to health care; the “right” to food and housing. That is not freedom. That is dependency. Those are not rights. Those are the rations of slavery – hay and a barn for human cattle.” - Alexis de Tocqueville

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Houston & Washington Texas
    Posts
    12,125

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Seibert View Post

    The big question is Why the Hell do this? His answer is to bridge cracks, if there are no cracks why do it?
    Elastomeric paint is to fill small hairline cracks, not large cracks. I've seen unpainted stucco after a rain and there are thousands of small hairline cracks not visible when dry. The elastomeric fills these cracks, and all stucco has these cracks.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NOLA
    Posts
    4,113

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    There is much discussion, debate and confusion on how moisture in the form of vapor moves through walls. Since the bulk of the comments come from climates where the vapor drive is either from the inside or equally balanced the common knowledge is walls should be sealed from the inside to prevent interior moisture being driven into the walls where it will condense and cause moisture damage.

    In the hot/humid the predominant vapor drive is from the outside and the sensible thing would be to create a vapor barrier or retarder on the exterior.

    Like belly buttons and you-know-what, everyone seems to have an opinion or theory on this.

    It appears the location of the vapor barrier/retarder is not the single point of failure here and there are several other mis-steps leading to moisture related damage.

    I do believe walls should be allowed to dry by diffusion to the interior and exterior in cooling and mild climates.
    Tomorrow the state of the art will be something else, yes, state of the art I said.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    midwestish
    Posts
    7,251

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Robinson View Post
    Tomorrow the state of the art will be something else, yes, state of the art I said.
    But will the appraisers from that other forum know how to price that?
    “I find the curiosity of our men with respect to this animal is pretty much satisfied.”
    ~ Meriwether Lewis

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NOLA
    Posts
    4,113

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    No but we can yell at them.

    And of course blame them.

    Or someone else if you or Dick prefer.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Martinez, California
    Posts
    14,883

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    A comment quoting Joe Lstiburek on Frank Gehry's MIT failures:


    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Company
    In the winter, when a building like this is heated, explains Lstiburek, who wrote the U.S. Department of Energy's handbook on moisture control, water vapor "sweats" through the wall into the insulation and is trapped there by the waterproof membrane, just like your T-shirt gets sopping under a leather jacket. This erodes the wall, causes mold, and even makes the insulation smell like dirty socks.¹
    Older buildings with no insulation and no air-sealing had no problems, to meet code the Stata building had to have a permeable WRB and even that didn't allow the walls to breathe, imagine the problems if the exterior had been coated with a non-permeable elastomeric coating? The elastomeric coatings that I see fail look like this elastomeric.jpg before they are sandblasted off, the stuff I have seen does not breathe and seals moisture saturating the insulation.


    ¹ http://www.fastcompany.com/641146/lost-funhouse
    “It is not an endlessly expanding list of rights —the “right” to an education; the “right” to health care; the “right” to food and housing. That is not freedom. That is dependency. Those are not rights. Those are the rations of slavery – hay and a barn for human cattle.” - Alexis de Tocqueville

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    4,776

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    He made a mistake on one of the projects. It was a vapor permeable Henry product called Airbloc. He put up a photo in a seminar and we laughed, we were the waterproofing consultants called in to look at the design. He tells a good story though.
    "First we finish the game, then we’ll deal with the Armada!"

    Sir Frances Drake

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Martinez, California
    Posts
    14,883

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted S. View Post
    He made a mistake on one of the projects. It was a vapor permeable Henry product called Airbloc. He put up a photo in a seminar and we laughed, we were the waterproofing consultants called in to look at the design. He tells a good story though.
    Ted:

    Explain a little further, he being Lstiburek or Gehry? Were you the waterproofing consultants before or after the problems?

    I was going to suggest that you go look at the problem for us, but maybe you already have. Why, in the Boston climate with the ventilation system that building must have, is the moisture accumulating in the walls?
    “It is not an endlessly expanding list of rights —the “right” to an education; the “right” to health care; the “right” to food and housing. That is not freedom. That is dependency. Those are not rights. Those are the rations of slavery – hay and a barn for human cattle.” - Alexis de Tocqueville

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    midwestish
    Posts
    7,251

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Seibert View Post
    Older buildings with no insulation and no air-sealing had no problems,...
    That's why them oldtimers were able to use all that butternut and poplar framing, cladding, decking...
    “I find the curiosity of our men with respect to this animal is pretty much satisfied.”
    ~ Meriwether Lewis

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    4,776

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    Dick

    We were brought in to look at the problems. This was before I went on my own. One building had a vapor permeable membrane, Lstiburek threw a slide of it up at a seminar and said it was a failure thinking it was impermeable, and talking like in your Fast Company quote. We of course never said anything, he always redeems himself with his ex-wife jokes.
    "First we finish the game, then we’ll deal with the Armada!"

    Sir Frances Drake

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Martinez, California
    Posts
    14,883

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    Ted:

    When he came out here about a year or two ago he said he knew what was wrong with it but wasn't going to tell them as payback for denying him admission years ago.

    The Washington Post had an article about how eating beef was destroying the planet, in response NPR had a program today where they interviewed a few "scientists" on this issue, including the guy from Cal who wrote "The Omnivore's Dilemma". One said that beef ranching created more greenhouse gasses than all the cars and buildings in the world, if we stopped eating beef we could have all the houses and cars we wanted. another said that if we just switched from beef to chicken it would save as much as taking 35,000 cars off the road every day, but the interesting one was to switch from beef and chicken and switch to pigs, pigs require little feed, they can root around and find 80% of their food, they are entirely self-sufficient. Allan's in good shape, he's already got the pigs on the ranch.

    BTW, I laughed out loud ant one of the comments to the Post article:

    Quote Originally Posted by Washington Post
    " if you dont ride a bike rather than a gasoline powered vehicle, are not a vegan, are heterosexual (not 'in' right now) and are not totally off the electric grid you are damaging the environment and ought to go kill yourself to save the planet for the more 'worthy' (see above) among us."
    “It is not an endlessly expanding list of rights —the “right” to an education; the “right” to health care; the “right” to food and housing. That is not freedom. That is dependency. Those are not rights. Those are the rations of slavery – hay and a barn for human cattle.” - Alexis de Tocqueville

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    7,503

    Default Re: Banish These Details From Your Plans

    Well, just killing yourself is not so green if you get cremated, that takes a lot of energy. You need to ride your bike to someplace with carnivores and kill yourself there.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts