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  1. #1
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    Mar 2009
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    Default Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    Hey guys, it's been awhile since i posted anything but i always have good results getting feedback from like minded tradesman.

    So, I'm building a custom hood with these massive corbels and it's something i've never done. I'm not worried about fabrication techniques, I'm concerned about glue joint lines telegraphing through the white paint/lacquer down the road a pc. ???

    Corbel dim's are: 18" deep x 34" high/tall x 6.5" wide

    At this point i plan to glue up 4 pcs of 8/4 Euro Beech (milled to nec thickness) with either Hide glue or Resorcinol to get a hard glue joint and POSSIBLY veneer only the face with Beech veneer.

    Any thoughts or ideas ???
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  2. #2
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    Jan 2013
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    If they're to be painted, why are you using beech? Beech is hard and heavy and will be difficult to saw and sand. What's wrong with poplar?

    If they're to be painted, why bother to veneer any of it?

    As a rule, heavy looking corbels which hang from a wall, should only look heavy. I'd made these hollow with a slot/pocket in the back to fit over a supporting block. The completed corbel is composite with wood pieces and grain set to facilitate construction. I'd start by running the grain parallel with the scalloped surface.

    Aesthetically I think the corbels in your picture are rather plain with their flat/slab sides and no detail at all other than cut face. A little embellishment would improve them and composite construction could facilitate this as well.
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    Last edited by Baldwin; 06-20-2014 at 08:10 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    Hey Jim,

    thanx for the input. I personally prefer Beech over Poplar for paint-grade. Point taken though and i still might. I talked to Lon today and he had the same idea of a "hollow" type of construction, which i will now do. Like the idea running the grain parallel to the scalloped face too.

    This NOT my design, client and designer supplied pics and they were flat on the sides, so i made the mock up accordingly. Given they are under a hood you will never really look at the sides straight on UNLESS you climbed up on the counter top !!!???? Might rout an edge detail to soften it visually. Door style of cabinetry is "Shaker" so they dont want to get to "fancy/heavily embellished" - "keep it simple" they said.

    Really, my biggest concern are the glue joint lines telegraphing IF i did a 4 pc glue up - it's a tech question- if you veneer the edge grain of a glue up like this would it work/stay in place ??? If doable , what type of glue for solid pcs and what type of glue for the veneer ???

    Thanx,

    M Smith

  4. #4
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    Jan 2013
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    Oh I see,,,another scientific glue question.

    Yellow and brown. Yellow (aliphatic resin) type 1,2 or 3 for almost everything and brown (hide glue) for veneering contoured surfaces without a press.
    ______________

    I still think you're over-engineering this.., even your customer said "keep it simple". Dismissing any composite construction, glue-up a big poplar glue-lam and saw-out and sand two corbels.

    Voila'.

    (You'll regret doing this in beech)

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    Thanx Jim,

    So, when the wood (poplar or any other solid) expands will the veneer stretch with it ??? In my experience with white paint/lacquer finishes on cabinetry and millwork it's basically a foregone conclusion that tiny fracture lines at rail to stile joints will appear over time. Thus my apprehension about using only a glued up blank. As i stated i am now planning to use "composite" or "hollow" construction- not sure exactly what your fabrication method is/would be ??? At this point, i plan to glue up two blanks out of 5/4 Basswood big enough to to get the 4 sides, use a 1/4" mdf master template to flush trim from. Rabbet inside edges to allow 3 layers of 1/4" bending poplar then cover the whole scalloped face with a maple veneer. Veneer ends up being 6.5 after flush trimming. Routing the edges with a roundover deep enough to create a small "fillet" might help conceal the joint between solid and veneer ???

    Don"t you know me by now ??? i always over engineer - unfortunately its in my DNA and aint changing anytime soon !!!!!!!!

    M Smith

  6. #6
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    Jan 2013
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    Matt,

    Here's another idea,..

    I think your concerns are more about the finish rather than construction. It sounds like you're trying for a lacquered-type, piano finish so are considering piano-type construction with veneers etc.

    If it were me, I'd cut them out out of anything smooth, solid and dry and take them over to the local shipyard, not far from your shop (and my boat) where they'd apply a two-part marine coating. (You can literally see yourself in these paint jobs).

    Of course you can do it yourself and with paint brushes too. The polyurethane paint is typically applied over penetrating epoxy sealers.

    If they painted Steinway pianos like this, you could park them outside.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    Jim, thanx for staying with me on this. Yes, more of a concern about fabing these things so they look like big solid wood corbels but don't show the tell tale signs of glue joint lines showing thru the paint eventually. It's not a piano finish , but a high end cabinet quality finish by a pro finish shop- I'm delivering these raw so just want to give them something that deals with the issue up front.
    Got the fab process figured out in my head , the only concern I have now is type of glue for veneer and type of veneer (psa backed, paper backed, wood backed). I know u said Hide for veneer but to my untrained ear it sounds contradictory - hard glue joint over sorta solid wood ???
    Psa (peel n stik) intrigues me for this application - MIGHT have just the right amount of give but that's just a hunch ??? Once installed these corbels AINT coming out !

    M Smith

  8. #8
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    Portland, OR
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    Design looks too plain to me too. See if client will go for detailing like these:
    http://www.osbornewood.com/mission-corbels.cfm?
    If so a hollow assembly with veneer plywood and corner trim would make life simple

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    Pics of corbel fab

    M Smith
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    Nice job. The average customer would of course have no clue how much time it takes to bring all of that together.
    "ALS IK KAN" - Stickley

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    Amen to that !!! That's a huge problem with custom "one off" projects - unless u have a crystall ball it's a "guesstimate" about how much time it will take !!! Over the years I've come to realize that my brain works about 1.5 to 2 times as fast as my braun. I've gotten better at guesstimating this kind of work but rarely do I make a profit - mostly works out to my "normal" hourly rate. If I did the exact same corbels again I'd be charging $1,500 - $2,000a pc !!! depending on the client. I live in So Cal and do a lot of custom work in Beverly Hills and that area so those kind of clients are use to paying top dollar for custom work done at a high level.
    M Smith

  12. #12
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    Nov 2005
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    M Smith,

    Very nice work! You work, think, and apparently estimate exactly like I do. Of course my wife has known about my estimating "skill" for years. She calls it "Bob time"

    Did you veneer the front? I can't really tell from the picture. If so, what did you use for glue? Beech veneer?

    As Calvert mentioned, only a few people (Homeowners and "carpenters") included really understand the amount of work that goes into a piece like that. In this day and age, it's both a blessing and a curse to be one of those few.

    Cheers,
    Bob

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    Bob, thanx. Almost embarrassed to say I ended up using PSA(peel n stick) maple veneer for the scalloped face over layers of bending poplar which I glued (combo of hide and CA) and stapled. I was up against a deadline so I did not have the time to vac bag with hide like I wanted. Time will tell if the PSA will stay put ???
    M Smith

  14. #14
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    Oct 2007
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    Portland, Oregon
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    Default Re: Custom hood with massive corbels question ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob scott View Post
    As Calvert mentioned, only a few people (Homeowners and "carpenters") included really understand the amount of work that goes into a piece like that. In this day and age, it's both a blessing and a curse to be one of those few.
    How true. Those that do know usually don't get the job because of the high cost, probably.
    Tom

    "Whoever ceases to be a student has never been a student." George Iles

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