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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    261

    Default Tangent handrail Lesson 5

    Classic side-wreaths anyone (turnouts)? This comes right out of the old books.

    We start by deciding on the center-line of the handrail to the center of the off-set newel post. The more off-set, the more dramatic the flair but also the more encroachment into the room.

    These were off-set 8" and will mount over 7" round-based newels, set on the floor and abutting curved skirt and riser.

    Or did we already do this?
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    Last edited by Baldwin; 06-03-2014 at 05:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Star Valley Ranch, WY
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    59

    Default Re: Tangent handrail Lesson 5

    Are these basically rake to level obtuse turns with a round finial mounted to the end?
    Troy McLain
    McLain Woodwork,Inc.
    307-690-8746
    tmclain25@gmail.com
    www.mclainwoodwork.com

  3. #3
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    Jan 2013
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    261

    Default Re: Tangent handrail Lesson 5

    Yes, but "level/rake" not rake/level. Either drawing would work but not everyone may be aware of that yet.

    It seems each old book has a different or improved method of laying these out. My (Mowat) method is the same way I lay everything else out. I hope this is becoming familiar by now.

    As usual I'll refrain from posting drawings until others have had a chance to work it through a bit. Choose your own off-set and everything else.

    I will say that the best way to begin any stair plan, is to begin with the handrail center-line, plan curves and in this case, our off-sets. Add riser positions afterwards around your desired plan curves. This is of course exactly opposite of what we're usually asked to do but never-the-less, it's still the beat way to begin.

    Your obtuse plan-tangent angle is arbitrary but stay well away from 90 degrees unless you want 90. The greater the angle, the greater the plan radius. This will involve more curved treads and higher newel post heights etc. Remember that this is supposed to be an "invitational starting step and turnout" and not a curved stair.
    Last edited by Baldwin; 06-03-2014 at 08:07 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    236

    Default Re: Tangent handrail Lesson 5

    Jim
    This is what we did in lesson 2.
    Brian
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Tangent handrail Lesson 5

    What is the handrail profile? What determines the size of the cap?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    261

    Default Re: Tangent handrail Lesson 5

    Brian, you're right, we can skip this or review it. It's only on my mind because I've just completed these parts. You'll find that in the course of this work, every lesson must be learned and re-learned every single time you get a new assignment. Every time I say to myself that "I don't need to review this lesson", I make stupid errors. This last time involved not reversing the bevels which meant that I lined-out the blanks wrong. Fortunately I discovered the mistake before cutting wood. It cost me a 1/2 hour of frustrating rework simply because I didn't take five minutes to review a page in my own file.

    Your drawing looks good. Mine looks a little different but they're the same . However you choose do yours, do it the same way everytime
    --------------------

    Standard cap diameter = twice standard handrail width of 2 5/8" or 5 1/4" (which is a rule made to be broken).

    Guidelines;

    Small diameter caps will appear with "too big a bite" out of them after the pie-slice is removed. They'll appear as if they're ready to split down the middle (and they may indeed, when bolting them up).

    Small diameter caps will have a rail bolt running though the center and interfering with installation. In the past, these joints were often just a rubbed, hide-glued affair, which of course worked loose.

    Excessively large diameter caps will appear as "fry-pan skillets". This may be OK if you're surmounting them with something cool but otherwise looks fairly stupid.

    Diameter of cap is often predicated upon a proper mate with the newel. Be sure to check the posts' top diameter and the bottom D of your handrail cap. Of course ideally, the post and cap were already designed to go together from the start but that would be a rare occurrence today.
    Last edited by Baldwin; 06-04-2014 at 09:39 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Star Valley Ranch, WY
    Posts
    59

    Default Re: Tangent handrail Lesson 5

    Is it just obtuse level to rake turns that require the bevels to be reversed? How do you know which bevel is reversed?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: Tangent handrail Lesson 5

    Jim
    Here's my go, I have left construction lines for everyone to see.

    I tried to confirm my Mowat bevels with DiCristina and managed one, I didn't understand how to get the other.

    Brian
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: Tangent handrail Lesson 5

    Very good question Troy and I don't as yet, have an answer which satisfies me. DiCristina has some given us some rules but they're far from "simplified". I'm still working on this...

    For the most part, you can tell if the bevels are applied correctly by simply sighting them for "plumb". Other times it's not so obvious. The bevels must also be applied to the proper joint which is also easy to screw-up. This is another reason for using Mowat's methods exclusively since the bevel on the right always applies to the joint on the right and likewise for the left.

    Brian, I've learned to rely on Mowats' bevels since the bevel determination comes only after the center-line elliptic curve. This ellipse (drawn from major/minor axis) is the final confirmation that the drawing has been done correctly.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: Tangent handrail Lesson 5

    Jim
    I concur whilst drawing this project I made a mistake somewhere I knew this, as the centre ellipse didn't fall bang on the elevated tangent.
    So it was redrawn to correct this, I also will exclusively use Mowat for Bevels as I find it easier to understand.

    Brian

    Have you got anything in mind for the next lesson?. If your willing.
    Last edited by bellchippy; 06-07-2014 at 03:00 AM.

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