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  1. #1

    Default Header question....

    Ok so here we go. I am remodeling a kitchen. I have been framing for 15 years. However I just can't wrap my head around this situation. I have a wall that needs removal. The customer wants an open floor plan. The situation is the wall is 14' and needs to be replaced with a header. It is not the center bearing wall. However it runs against the second story joists. So is it bearing or is it simply bracing. If its bearing what is your thoughts on header widths. Was thinking 2 ply with a flitch

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Des Moines, Iowa
    Posts
    3,832

    Default Re: Header question....

    Shawn

    see if you can get the original construction drawings.
    keep in mind if you are at the site and can't wrap your your head around this then it is even harder for us to get it when it is being explained by someone that can't figure it out.
    No insult meant whatsoever.

    you need to provide us with a drawing and pictures and even then you are only guessing we are correct in any advice we give.
    When you take on the job you are the one responsible. I realize you are asking questions of you contemporaries and we would love to help but more info is needed and you are the one that is at risk.
    Mark Parlee
    BESI(building envelope science institute) Envelope Inspector
    EDI Certified EIFS Inspector/Moisture Analyst/Quality Control/Building Envelope II
    Level one thermagrapher (Snell Training)
    www.thebuildingconsultant.com
    www.parleebuilders.com
    You build to code, code is the minimum to pass this test. Congratulations your grade is a D-

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sterling Heights, MI
    Posts
    4,649

    Default Re: Header question....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Mayo View Post
    The situation is the wall is 14' and needs to be replaced with a header. It is not the center bearing wall. However it runs against the second story joists. So is it bearing or is it simply bracing. If its bearing what is your thoughts on header widths. Was thinking 2 ply with a flitch
    What does "it runs agains the second story joists" mean? Are you trying to say that a 14' long partition runs perpindicular to the upper joists and you want to remove it?

    What is bearing on the second floor joists? What are the lengths of the joists? Are they 2x10, 8, 12 or 6?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sterling Heights, MI
    Posts
    4,649

    Default Re: Header question....

    2 ply with a flitch sounds like 1970 talk. I haven't seen a flitch plate since the 70's.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    7,516

    Default Re: Header question....

    OK, I'll be the bad cop.

    This situation is not complicated, it's not unusual and comes up in remodeling often. If you can't wrap your head around it, don't. You need to hire a competent engineer who will look at the structure, calculate the loads and devise the proper support. This is not a guessing game or a "google for a construction forum" exercise.

    Besides, any competent Building Department will require that you submit drawings and calculations with the permit application.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Des Moines, Iowa
    Posts
    3,832

    Default Re: Header question....

    dg
    What permit?

    Jim
    attached picture of flitch plate.
    Well I guess you cant' see the plate very well but you see the bolts
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Mark Parlee
    BESI(building envelope science institute) Envelope Inspector
    EDI Certified EIFS Inspector/Moisture Analyst/Quality Control/Building Envelope II
    Level one thermagrapher (Snell Training)
    www.thebuildingconsultant.com
    www.parleebuilders.com
    You build to code, code is the minimum to pass this test. Congratulations your grade is a D-

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sterling Heights, MI
    Posts
    4,649

    Default Re: Header question....

    Mark, back in 1972, I worked in a builders steel supply yard. I fabbed about 300 of these "flitch plates". To us, it was 1/4" by 11" flat stock. They used them in the garage door headers.

    When I got into carpentry, I installed maybe 5 of them. By then, paralams had come into use and micro lams quickly followed. That was the last I've heard of anyone using them. Good riddance LOL.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Des Moines, Iowa
    Posts
    3,832

    Default Re: Header question....

    We had to on this one.
    This was two plates and three plys of lvl
    Mark Parlee
    BESI(building envelope science institute) Envelope Inspector
    EDI Certified EIFS Inspector/Moisture Analyst/Quality Control/Building Envelope II
    Level one thermagrapher (Snell Training)
    www.thebuildingconsultant.com
    www.parleebuilders.com
    You build to code, code is the minimum to pass this test. Congratulations your grade is a D-

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    1,375

    Default Re: Header question....

    Flitch plates are great when you don't have the width to sacrifice for wider LVL's or the like. Don't poo-poo them, they work great for certain applications.
    Portland Renovations, Inc.
    www.portlandrenovations.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    7,516

    Default Re: Header question....

    Absolutely. I have one in my own house, had to retrofit it because of certain "deficiencies" by the original builder. Couldn't get anything else in the space.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sterling Heights, MI
    Posts
    4,649

    Default Re: Header question....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Mayo View Post
    The situation is the wall is 14' and needs to be replaced with a header. It is not the center bearing wall. However it runs against the second story joists. So is it bearing or is it simply bracing. If its bearing what is your thoughts on header widths. Was thinking 2 ply with a flitch
    I'm not poo pooing flitch plates as much as I'm poo pooing that idea as his first suggestion for a non bearing wall.

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