Drum Sanders

[aechamps]

Looking for a decent drum sander for my workshop that is easy to use and change the paper on. I keep reading customer comments that Jets are hard to change the sandpaper on. Would appreciate some good advice and experience on other woodworkers with this tool.

[Ottoman]

Drum sanders are a joke. My advice is to find a cabinet shop in your area that will run items on a wide belt sander by the hour. If our in my area I have a 12" dual head sander that you can have, but don't think I'm doing you any favors. Go over to woodweb.com and research them. there is lots of good information there. Basically I find that they are too slow, too finicky, and provide too poor quality of sanding. Other than that, there fine.

[Lavrans]

I agree.
Drum sanders just basically suck. Save up a little longer and watch the classifieds for a wide belt- you can often get 18" & 24" for relatively cheap.

[joseph]

i had been thinking of getting one to prep used lumber .really glad this thred came up . I can see how changing out the paper could loose any time gained over a rotex or belt sander . Next invention I would like to see would be long lasting sand paper

[Lavrans]

I found it faster to set up a big belt sander with an infeed and outfeed table (the sander upside down), and feed the lumber as if on a jointer. The paper lasts longer, dust collection can be pretty good, and it's really quick to change the belt.

Better for prepping used lumber is to get a grizzly or a used 15" planer with some cheap knives is awesome. I found one for $300- turned out it had carbide knives on it. Carbide isn't very good for fine planing (HSS is better), but it lasts a long time between sharpenings.

Then take it to a place with a wide belt.

[dgbldr]

I'm starting to look for a sander also, and I could use a bit of education. Lavrans, can you explain what's wrong with drum sanders? Is there something fundamentally flawed with the concept, or just some brands' version? Or just for certain types of jobs? Especially when it comes to something wider, it would take a much, much bigger machine to get that capability in a wide belt.

I think I can buy a Jet 22/44 drum for around 2k. A 43" wide belt is more like 25k and probably weighs a couple tons. And no, I don't do batch jobs that I could take to another shop just for sanding.

[Ottoman]

Here are the issues with drum sanders as compared to a wide belt:

First the abrasive contacts the wood in the same location about every 12" compared to about every 72" on a wide belt. This causes excessive heat build up, which in turn will trash your sand paper.

Second that excessive heat problems results in two secondary issues. You will need ridiculous amounts of dust collection. Figure on 1600 to 2000 CFM. You will also need to be very sensitive to how much you try to remove in a single pass.

Third,drum sanders don't have a platen. This means you will have similar mill marks as a planer. The grit of the sandpaper doesn't solve the problem. You will need to still to quite a bit of sanding with an orbital.

Fourth, because of the above issues the feed rates are very slow compared to a wide belt. Don't quote me on it but drum sanders are going to feed at about 3 to 15 fpm compared to 15 to 40 fpm on a WB

Fifth, changing the abrasive on a WB takes about 20 seconds compared to about five minutes on a DS.

[Lavrans]

What he said.

The other big issues are that the paper wears out relatively quickly. Then the belts tend to be pretty crummy, and tracking goes out on them, which leads to lumps that can mess up the piece.

They often aren't built very well leading to pieces that are sanded with a slight bevel or bow. Double drums can be problematic if you send something small through.

The paper itself separates, dust builds up under the belt on the drum, and you get a burn or track.

You can get a new 24" widebelt sander for around $9k.

Portland, OR Craigslist has a 43" wide belt for under 6k, and a good condition 24" for $5,800.

They pop up regularly.

Sure, they are bigger, take up more space, and need more power. But I can also find a double drum sander for $400 regularly, and wouldn't buy them.

[Lavrans]

I'm starting to look for a sander also, and I could use a bit of education. Lavrans, can you explain what's wrong with drum sanders?... Especially when it comes to something wider, it would take a much, much bigger machine to get that capability in a wide belt.

Design is just bad. It would be better to buy an old stroke sander- you'd have better capacity, better quality, faster material removal, more reliability, and it would cost a lot less. And could be broken down into something close enough to the same size as to be equivalent.

I think I can buy a Jet 22/44 drum for around 2k. A 43" wide belt is more like 25k and probably weighs a couple tons. And no, I don't do batch jobs that I could take to another shop just for sanding.

I've used Jet, Delta, Performax, Grizzly drum sanders. The open ended ones are garbage. It's faster and more reliable to build the doors and belt sand afterward. The sander isn't worth the money or time.

What do you mean you don't do batch jobs that you could take to another shop? Is it that there just aren't any shops in your area that do that?

In Portland there were 2 shops that made that part of their business, and I knew half a dozen other cabinet shops that would let me rent time on their machine (usually they'd have one of their guys run it, and would charge me around 40-60/hour). In Seattle there are several shops. I can walk in with a couple hundred lineal feet of 1x12 and have it all sanded in about 1/2 hour. That would cost me anywhere from $30-$80. It would easily take 3-4 hours on one of those 22/44 belt sanders.

[MarkMc]

Mine paid for itself, and reasonably fast too, but it's not the best, the fastest, easiest... they do indeed work, they're just at the low end of machines doing those tasks and that's reflected in the pricing. They like all tools have limitations, and we all live in different environments. When I got mine there was no one with in 70 miles with open capacity. I still have it and run it occasionally, and don't think it's had anything other than 180/220 on in a decade. I have other options now however that would make me think hard about the purchase.

[JAlvis]

I thought the benefit of a belt sander was to flatten wide panels and get a good finish on figured wood? Seems like most of you aren't using a drum sander for those purposes.

From my understanding the smaller drum sanders(like the Jet or Performax) your interested in are only good if you get the oscillating models. These models would eliminate the majority of Lavrans complaints but you will pay more.

Everyone I know who uses the oscillating models are happy with the results and none complain about changing the paper.

Remember this isn't my experience but feedback from those I know who have the system. Like you I have considered the same options and without investing in a larger shop I'm limited to the smaller units.

[Lavrans]

I thought the benefit of a belt sander was to flatten wide panels and get a good finish on figured wood? Seems like most of you aren't using a drum sander for those purposes.

Nah- the benefit is they get sanded. And often are used for final thicknessing (that last 1/16"). It's very nice precision, but also it gets the majority of the sanding done quickly, regardless of the figure.

From my understanding the smaller drum sanders(like the Jet or Performax) your interested in are only good if you get the oscillating models. These models would eliminate the majority of Lavrans complaints but you will pay more.

To pay enough to get the oscillating model pushes the price to a used wide belt. The oscillators are better, but still (IMO) best for hobbyists. If you're doing it to make a living, the money just isn't well spent. It's great if time isn't much of a concern. A stroke sander is still faster, and gets results that are as good or better than the oscillators, even. A wide belt is faster than a stroke sander, and flatter.

[dgbldr]

What do you mean you don't do batch jobs that you could take to another shop? Is it that there just aren't any shops in your area that do that?

No. I mean I don't build cabinets or furniture or even built-ins in-house. I don't run a wood shop as such. I just have a few basic machines that I use very occasionally when I need to make a couple of pieces of anything quickly to keep a remodel job going. The sander would be used for final thicknessing of pieces too wide to go through a 15" planer. Final sanding with orbital is OK. A wide belt is beyond what I can reasonably justify.

And yes, I don't have any good shops close to me that I could use on short notice.

[Lavrans]

No. I mean I don't build cabinets or furniture or even built-ins in-house. I don't run a wood shop as such. I just have a few basic machines that I use very occasionally when I need to make a couple of pieces of anything quickly to keep a remodel job going. The sander would be used for final thicknessing of pieces too wide to go through a 15" planer. Final sanding with orbital is OK. A wide belt is beyond what I can reasonably justify.

And yes, I don't have any good shops close to me that I could use on short notice.

I'd still go with a stroke sander. The table can do double duty- a work table, or a sanding table... Cheap, ultra reliable, and minimal. Can do anything from rough material removal to veneer sanding.