Am I crazy or just lacking in experience?

[JoshAndrews]

10.09 Exterior Pavilion Drawing.pdf

Local contractor (new to me) asked me to look at this plan for a pavilion that's a potential project in the "old money neighborhood" in my town.

I have more than a few hang ups with what the architect is proposing, but I want to hear what you guys think before I reveal my potential ignorance.

I posted this in Finish Carpentry because a lot of you guys think about what kind of wood performs well outside and I'm interested to see if any of you would select something other than Doug Fir to frame it in addition to any other thoughts you have.

[LIHR50]

I could sit there with the fireplace roaring all winter long with a fine cigar and some fine spirits.

I love Doug Fir, overall in my opinion a fantastic wood for construction and for making beautiful doors, etc.. Just select the grade and go from there. I have no reservations using Doug Fir for anything.

As for having "hang ups" with what the architect is proposing, well that's always the case with us contractors. We just know better but sometimes it's best to keep it to ourselves.

[JoshAndrews]

I could sit there with the fireplace roaring all winter long with a fine cigar and some fine spirits.

I love Doug Fir, overall in my opinion a fantastic wood for construction and for making beautiful doors, etc.. Just select the grade and go from there. I have no reservations using Doug Fir for anything.

As for having "hang ups" with what the architect is proposing, well that's always the case with us contractors. We just know better but sometimes it's best to keep it to ourselves.

Agreed on all accounts :) Especially the cigar... There are just a couple things I'm not sure I feel good standing behind. I'll be a sub on the job, but I don't want to participate with something that has issues.

[dlhunter]

I only looked briefly but is the floor framing wood where the entrance is?

[JoshAndrews]

Yes, wood framing with tile on top :/

[AndyGump]

I read that most of the members are PSLs anyway and the floor joists are PT.
I don't see were he calls out for hangers on the FJs on either side of the flush beam, I would have a drop beam and let the FJs land on it then block accordingly.
A couple other things but not too big a deal.

Andy.

[IamTheWalrus]

I thought about that but the designer wants a flush floor frame. Look at his elevations. Nothing hanging below. It'll work as he shows in his framing plan and section.

He called out a lot of hangers for the heavy stuff, but failed to name those for the joists.

[philthegreek]

Why a tile floor over such a flexible subfloor? What size tile is called out? The PSL's are available in PT but you are limited to what is manufactured as PSL. Have you looked into thermally modified lumber? You can get it in oak, poplar, SLP, doug fir and others. The poplar is not really that structural, but the others are. I'll have to look at the drawings again.

Thermally modified wood;
http://www.ecovantagewood.com/
Also Lewis Lumber Products in PA.

Where are you located Josh??

Phil

[IamTheWalrus]

Well, even though it is just a little outdoor kitchen pavilion, the kind of thing that gets thrown up everywhere nowadays by people with too much spare cash on their hands, the kind of thing that in my jurisdiction would require a permit but no engineering (and my earthquake situation is the same as this eastern Tennessee location in question), the kind of thing that in vast areas of the country outside the big huge metropolitan population centers might not need a permit at all, the kind of thing for someone with a $12K pro gas range in their kitchen, probably another kitchen near the theater room, a wine cellar, and under-roof fireplace in their outdoor deck nook, hey, they now want a little doodad out in the back yard, a cute little 400 sf thing with a slate roof in which to house their newest fireplace and their newest stainless steel $7K gas range, we are all concerned it is going to fall down.

And we think the floor cannot be tiled, as if that size tile never never gets installed nowadays in houses unless the framing is 12" on center, designed with L/1200 deflection criteria, overdesigned probably, and layered up on top not with just the 1-1/8" subfloor sheathing, but another layer of ply on top, followed by a mud base or Durock. Anybody been in a builder spec house lately?

I agree that the thing is poorly designed. If they owner wants his brick pier brick fascia thing to work right, he ought to hire someone who can design the platform with real pads and square piers, some structural steel to handle a hollowcore plank precast concrete deck with the steel lintels needed on which to hang the brick edges. OR not. Heck, one could just use one of the many lick-n-stick faux brick facings offered by people like Boral (see here http://boralbricks.com/images/MediaE...tall_Guide.pdf)

Then for the structure, one does a REAL timbered thing with REAL timber trusses at the gabled ends, and knee braces, all sitting atop that rock-solid concrete-and-steel deck.

Or not. Maybe it will get built pretty much as drawn. Maybe this designer has done a dozen like this already. Maybe they will shake and fall down. Maybe the guy that began this thread has caved and offered to do it as drawn. Maybe he walked and said, no way. I don't think he has been back since his opening post.

Do a web search for "timber pavilion fireplace" and you'll find them everywhere. Here is one on Bainbridge Island, WA, outside Seattle, an area known for those wierd shakes one gets when two tectonic plates are colliding, producing volcanoes, etc. Think those columns will handle things when things start to twitch? See any lateral bracing to steady those connections at the tops of the columns?

[MarkMc]

See any lateral bracing to steady those connections at the tops of the columns?

No, but that is one sweet broom. )

[kfc510]

Do a web search for "timber pavilion fireplace" and you'll find them everywhere. Here is one on Bainbridge Island, WA, outside Seattle, an area known for those wierd shakes one gets when two tectonic plates are colliding, producing volcanoes, etc. Think those columns will handle things when things start to twitch? See any lateral bracing to steady those connections at the tops of the columns?

But that structure has reinforced concrete inside the foam tubes, anchored to adequate piers, forming an infinitely stiff vertical cantilever, so there is no moment left to resolve at the top, obviating the need for knee braces.

(Or it might, anyway. No way to know anything about it from the photo. But as long as we're making WAG's about how structures work, I thought I'd join the club.)

Actually, that would work for the OP's pavilion. Set some metal (or .60 PT) posts deep into the ground so they're stiffly standing upright. No moment to resolve up top. Gotta change the 'architect's' detail though.
k

[JoshAndrews]

East Tennessee

[JAlvis]

Looks like a pain with the given details....not near enough info for me to feel comfortable. The transition from deck to slope I would like to see a footing or some alternative. Seems like one that would need a clear scope of whats not included if problems arise.

I'm concerned also with the fireplace and chimney structure. I would need to know how its being build and/or attached to the main structure. All in All too many unknowns.