NYC Anatomy of a early 1900's semi-attached common wall.

[dcbnyc]

Hey all,
I am a project super (carpenter by trade) in the business for over 25 years, specializing in high-end residential.

I am about to get into the market of renovating old 1900 - 1940's two to three families, framed and brick homes in the Bushwick section of Brooklyn New York. It's outside of my experience. I am familiar with stick framing, balloon framing, and metal framing, but don’t know what to expect inside of semi-attached homes’ party walls built in the 1900-1940s. Where these walls built California style and lifted into place with sheathing on the outside? Where they plank sheathed from the inside? Is there commonly a gap between built

My plan is to build in as much energy efficiency as possible, with attention to sound proofing, vapor and air migration and possibly adding to fire proofing/suppression.

[Dick Hackbarth]

Dcbnyc:
This is pretty trick business. You should probably avail yourself of any opportunities to inspect of few of these buildings which have been opened up and/or gutted, so you can see what the structures look like. Then the next bldg. might be different, or have already been improperly altered. Talk with some local BO’s and Bldg. Inspectors, they see these problems every day, and have a wealth of knowledge and experience on many of the pros and cons on these bldgs. Obviously, they come at it from a NYC bldg. code standpoint, but you might just as well get to know them, because they’ll be in your hair daily, when you get started. It would also serve you well to get to know a good Structural Engineer who knows something about these types of bldgs. Each bldg. might be slightly different and need different remediation work, and having him/her involved in the initial inspection, so you know what you’re getting into might be money well spent. He’ll likely have to sign off on the work to please the Bldg. Dept. anyway. We don’t usually go out of our way to make life miserable for you, we actually try to keep you out of trouble, and can usually save you some money and headaches. See if you can look at some of these bldgs. which have had fire damage (gutted by fire), the walls are unstable without the floor framing, there are some real lessons in the damage done. Get some construction books from that era to gain an understanding of the thinking and methods of that time.

Are you talking about side-by-side brown stones and the like? They are usually exterior masonry bearing walls, but not to today’s standards. The joists are fire-cut and pocketed into the walls. The walls support the floor and roof framing, but more importantly that same framing keeps the walls stable, as bearing walls. Many of these walls are in pretty tough condition and any floor framing removal can lead to wall failures. The existing masonry walls usually need considerable work to bring them up to par. Different types of cracking can mean different things; and people who work on these bldgs. regularly become very good at reading this evidence. Take care to match new brick, stone and mortar with the existing or this can cause problems. Some of the common walls are multi-wythe walls supporting framing from both sides, and others are two walls with essentially zero clearance btwn. them, but not bonded. The two walls are often stabilizing each other due to relative movements of the walls over the years. And, sometimes demo. activity in one bldg. can have adverse affects on the adjacent bldg. The framing will likely be rough cut lumber or at lease of sizes different than what we have available today. Many of these bldgs. have clear spanning floor and roof joist which are tough to justify by today’s standards. They worked in part because interior partitions did provide some support, load distribution, and stiffening. The assumed loadings were sometimes lower than today’s loading and expectations for framing stiffness were less then too. There is a real art to knowing and working on these old bldgs., so get a good Professional Structural Engineer on retainer. I’ve not practiced in NYC, but I believe they have considerable Bldg. Dept. knowledge about the does and don’t of this type of work because it is so common, and the defects and potential pitfalls are so regularly encountered.

Good Luck

[Dutchman]

I'll second the "good luck" comment from Dick.

Our last big job was a brick row house. We spent many hours and many dollars of the clients' money after finding things. Everything we did had bricks and masonry involved, no simple framing.

All floor joists (new beams, floor systems, etc) throughout our three story structure needed to be point loaded to the basement again because they were all on non load bearing interior wythes. They were fine before we removed partitions, but that compartmentalized life style is old hat.

If the numbers after construction work (for you if it's yours) or if your client has the cash to drive it home, I like the idea of reviving old housing stock, quite honestly, it's the "greenest" thing going. If not, listen to the voice in some of the horror movies when it says "get out".

[BThomas]

DCB
Dick had some good information but don't be put off. I recently did a Brownstone in Manhattan and it was just like Dick described.
If you are getting building permits you will need an architect or engineers drawings. These drawings should describe in detail the existing construction along with what you need to do to do your renovation. As the contractor, you will get the permit but you will be best served by getting an expeditor to do the leg work.
Are the buildings you will be working on "Brownstones"? If so and you are returning them to their past glory, there are several good books available.
Bill T

[sean.owen.arch]

dcbnyc,

I wanted to let you know that I work for a firm, Space Architects, in the East Village and we've done projects similar to this and currently are working on the design for a three-story walk-up in the West Village. In addition, our office does the expediting in-house to streamline the process of submitting to the DOB, making the process much faster than out-sourcing to an expediting firm [which we used to do]. I am the lead expediter in addition to doing schematic design to construction documents within the office. If you'd like to see some of our work, then please take a look at our website. Also, I'm not the stereotypical pencil-pusher, I like to get my hands dirty and have worked several summers in construction to gain more knowledge, and simply because it's fun. Hope to hear from you.

-Sean
sean@spacearchitects.com

Space Architects
184 E. 7th Street
New York, NY 11211
T: 212.228.2102
website: www.spacearchs.com

[Allan Edwards]

dcbnyc,

I wanted to let you know that I work for a firm, Space Architects, in the East Village and we've done projects similar to this and currently are working on the design for a three-story walk-up in the West Village. In addition, our office does the expediting in-house to streamline the process of submitting to the DOB, making the process much faster than out-sourcing to an expediting firm [which we used to do]. I am the lead expediter in addition to doing schematic design to construction documents within the office. If you'd like to see some of our work, then please take a look at our website. Also, I'm not the stereotypical pencil-pusher, I like to get my hands dirty and have worked several summers in construction to gain more knowledge, and simply because it's fun. Hope to hear from you.

-Sean
sean@spacearchitects.com

Space Architects
184 E. 7th Street
New York, NY 11211
T: 212.228.2102
website: www.spacearchs.com

Sean

Welcome to the forum, I visited your site, your firm does some very nice work. I assume your fees are based on a % of the job?

Allan

[sean.owen.arch]

Allan,

Thank you very much and typically yes, the fee is based on a percentage of the job. As for the rate, it varies based on size of project, scope, etc. Regarding exact numbers, I do not handle that, it's strictly done by the Principal of the Firm.

-Sean