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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Where it snows
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    162

    Default Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    Eastern white cedar shingles at 5" exposure for a shingle with 3/8" butt thickness, build up to a total thickness just shy of an inch.

    I have used plenty of 5/4 (1" net) trim in wood and composite with shingle siding, and would rather use a thicker trim arrangement this next time.

    Was thinking of saving a little cost in materials, but adding a little in labor, going with 4/4 material (3/4" net) boosted out with some scrap 7/16" OSB.

    With this arrangement, my casings and other stuff would be about 1/4" proud of the shingle butts, and under the laps, where the shingle build is a little more than 1/2" and closer to 5/8", one could never peek into a hole and see a gap or a hint of OSB.

    All this, because there is no availability of 1.25" thickness trim in cedar or composite, and I certainly don't want to use 2x (1-1/2" net) material.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
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    5,576

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    I've done build ups like this before. Normally rip cedar instead of using OSB.

    Tom
    http://chicagocraftsmen.org/2011/06/261.html

    Check with the AHJ, what we say doesn't matter.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    2,467

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    Bad idea. OSB swells and rots like crazy.

    Good idea: Get a box of 1/4" plastic shims. Space them along the back of your trim pieces and tack them in place with stainless staples. Size and orient them so that the inside 1" of your trim does not have any shims on it. Lift and install trim as usual.

    Presto, you have padded out your trim, made a rainscreen detail, and corrected for the material buildup on window flanges.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Calyfornia
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    756

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    What's wrong with 2x material? I've used it countless times for the same detail. You have to account for the flange buildup, but thats two runs through the TS. I think the 1 1/2" looks better, is more stable and same labor.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Lake Placid, NY
    Posts
    1,113

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    Quote Originally Posted by aerieandy View Post
    What's wrong with 2x material? I've used it countless times for the same detail. You have to account for the flange buildup, but thats two runs through the TS. I think the 1 1/2" looks better, is more stable and same labor.
    LOL. You must be a lumber salesman, or maybe a one-percenter. Cedar grows as trees, but money doesn't grow on them

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Cape May County, New Jersey
    Posts
    256

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    We commonly use 1/2" treated plywood as a packer behind window surrounds. It seems to work pretty well.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dallas,PA
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    1,058

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    A few suggestions.... If you want to use a composite, Azek does make a product that is a full 1 1/4 ". It is known as "Azek to mill" or ATM. Ask your supplier for info and pricing. The good thing is that it does come 18' long. I have used it to run some exterior crowns and create buildups for decorative corbels.

    If you want to build out the thickness of a standard wood 1"x material I would add strips at the edges only. This gives the finish piece of trim the ability to dry on the backside, just like vented rainscreen approach for siding. Maybe not such a big deal if you can get all VG trim but certainly helps if you have flat or mixed grain as the only trim that is available or is all the budget can cover.

    I also would advise against osb for buildout. Too much work goes into doing a cedar shingle job to goof up on the trims.
    "ALS IK KAN" - Stickley

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,458

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    Agree with NW, I would not use osb. It just isn't durable if it every gets wet. I'd be fine with rips of zipwall or PT plywood. Or other material with durability if it took some water.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    9,252

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    I concur with not using 2x cedar b/c of price and also b/c of the fact that we usually have trim rough side out.
    “Racism is man's gravest threat to man - the maximum of hatred for a minimum of reason.”
    Abraham J. Heschel (Jewish theologian and philosopher, 1907-1972)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Kennett Square, Pa (chester county)
    Posts
    476

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    We used to rip one side of the 1x4 corner trim down to 2-3/4" so that the corner was 3-1/2 wide on both sides once you butt the ripped piece to the full piece. Then we would take the ~3/4" drop off from that rip and rip it into two equal pieces and use that as a "build out shim". All of the jobs we did were lapped siding that would come out with beat up 1x cedar on the bottom for packaging so we made use of that stock as well. Check with your supplier. They may have some damaged stuff they could give you to rip spacers from.
    Darrel Hunter

    "You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do." - Henry Ford

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Evergreen, CO
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    Is it just me, or is most cedar 1x(4/4 S1S2E)stock a big disappointment these days. Most of it is sapwood, and the rough side looks like it hit a bandsaw blade while still wet at 100mph(probably did). There is no rough "wood grain", just a bunch of fuzz which once painted looks more like stucco than wood.

    For entry doors I like to plane down 2x cedar stock, and rabbit 1/2" along the outside. The pre-built unit replaces the brickmold/trim combo, place it over the opening and mark it's location. Take it down and plane down the top 1/4" of the lap siding before screwing it in place with GRK trim screws.

    Yes it takes longer, but for a front door it's worth it. The built up method using rips of cedar works well too, but is more time consuming if you want a invisible glue line rip, and I question it's longevity.
    Last edited by Kevin Stricker; 11-04-2012 at 10:29 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
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    5,576

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Stricker View Post
    Is it just me, or is most cedar 1x(4/4 S1S2E)stock a big disappointment these days.
    Not just you, it is a disappointment.

    Tom
    http://chicagocraftsmen.org/2011/06/261.html

    Check with the AHJ, what we say doesn't matter.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Where it snows
    Posts
    162

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    No disappointment here. None at all. We've a couple of yards that get and stock the finest WRC and doug fir and western spruce I've seen.

    And if you have a project to do with a bunch of cedar, as in shingles, trim, beams, etc., I highly recommend Bear Creek Lumber in Winthrop, WA, that ships as far from their SE WA location as Maine and Florida. And Maine's got lumber and forest, and so does FL, especially cypress.

    Bear Creek will never disappoint the most demanding customer.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    portland, maine
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: Thickness of exterior trim used with cedar shingle siding

    Our 1x is all S4S and aside from damage from forklifts and banding it seems as good as ever. Costs a lot (as it should).

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