Packing out for inset hinges w/FF

[dlhunter]

Built some cabinets with face frame planning on using overlay doors. Now I will be using inset doors. The last time I did inset doors I figured I would just pack out the inside of the cabinet flush to the FF which wound up being a bit more of a pita than I thought it would be. Had I known from the start I would be going with inset doors I would have made the cabinets so insides were flush to FFs. Too late for that now so one way or another I need to build out the inside of cabinets for mounting the hinge plates. I'm using Blum clip tops. Blum makes an inset hinge for use with FF cabinets but they require at least 9/16 reveal to mount to the back of the FF and don't have as much adjustability. The reveals I have are mostly 1/4". Is there an easy way to do this? I would think they would make some sort of shim for hinge plates. I guess I can get different mounting plates but those offerings are limited too. I was thinking of getting a piece of some sort of plastic 2"x2" stock and milling it to roughly the outline of the mounting plate then I would be able to cut pieces off at the exact thickness needed to shim the mounting plate flush. Any suggestions? I'm still learning at this finish carpentry stuff.

[okmrazor]

My Blum book is at the office, but they should have a back plate ( a 6, maybe)that can accomodate 1/4"

[tjbnwi]

Page 34 shims

Page 50, last item-Inset Face Frame Adapter.

http://d1.blum.com/mefiles/BEC003/concealedhinges_ep_dok_bus_$sall_$aof_$v1.pdf

It does not copy as a hot link, click on "Reply With Quote" Copy the link, past into address bar, should take you to where you want to be.

Tom

[dlhunter]

Thanks Tom. I'm not sure why I couldn't find that catalog online. The spacer on pg 34 is exactly what I was looking for except it looks like it only comes 3mm and brown (cabinets are white) If they had 1mm,3mm and 6 mm in white it would be perfect. I could just get all 0mm mounting plates and shim as needed. I already have all of the hinges ordered with 0mm plates but once I get everything assembled (the face frame will be built as one unit) I will check all the reveals and see if just ordering some different height plates will work. I would much rather spend another the money for new plates than spend half a day building out cabinets flush to FFs.

[dlhunter]

Oh, and I saw the bracket on pg 50 but it needs a 14mm/9/16" reveal which I don't have. It also looks like a pain to try and put the mounting screws in from the back of the FF.

[tjbnwi]

Did you look at the plates on page 51? Might be something there you can use.

The plates come in 0,3,6,9. Some with +/- of 3, others with +/- of 2.

Their catalog is a pain to find on line, you have to take about 10 steps on their web site to get there.

Tom

[dlhunter]

I looked briefly. I'll check more thoroughly once I know exactly what it is I need.
Thanks for the catalog. Got it saved on my iPad iBooks app now.

[tjbnwi]

That is where I pulled it from.

Tom

[tjbnwi]

Darrel,

You mention that you would have built the FF even with the case, I do that for overlay doors to ease slide/roll out installation.

I'll explain the way I have seen the insets that Ed Michnick does. Hopefully he'll stop by and correct any errors I put forth. What he does is makes the box 1/2" or 3/4" smaller than the inside opening of the face frame, by doing so the box acts as a stop for the entire door. I'm not sure if he uses full or half crank hinges for this. I'm going to steal this method on my next insert build.

Tom

[dlhunter]

I actually did that somewhat on my last inset build. But I only did it on the top and bottom plywood. I used 3/4" ply, put edge banding on the edges and left 1/2" on them exposed inside the face frame. I managed to think of that but it being my first try at inset I hadn't really given hinge mounting much thought. I am still pretty green at this cabinet building thing and have learned a lot on this build.

[JNComplete]

I suggest making your own pack out spacers from maple or poplar. It's fully customizable and doesn't take a special order or catalog.

Secondly. the face frame style hinges are not that impressive. There is too much torque applied to the plate that it tends to want to pull off the FF w/ all the pressure applied from a euro hinge. Just my experience.

Yes. Building the sides of the boxes flush to the face frames is the way to go, and the top and bottom of the cabinet or ff opening looks and works well with about a 1/4" of the carcass face exposed---wworking as a stop for doors and drawers. Just be sure to have that edge banding on tight b/c you wont get a second chance with an iron.

Good luck!!!

Jon

[BOC Contracting]

When you use the carcass as the stop, do you put a bumper on the door? (assuming these are snap close hinges) If so, do you make your face frame thicker than your doors? Otherwise, your door would stand proud of the FF by the thickness of the bumper, right?

Thanks,
Ben

[JNComplete]

Hey Ben, No bumper or magnet needed but that's because I use the soft close Blum hinges that pull the door shut at a slow speed.
My doors are 3/4" thick and so are the face frames so it all ends up flush. It's taken me many a cabinet to dial this in, but I now do almost all of mine with this plan, which makes it all more efficient.

one other piece of advice. use a story stick to lay out Face frames, so that if you have a cabinet next to it, that is not receiving doors, you may not want the carcass stop so it would change the size of your cabinet, so that everything lines up. If this makes sense. I have made this mistake before.
Just another way to do it, I guess.

Jon

[Addison]

I try to make my face frames 7/8ths thick and doors 3/4. Takes care of bumpers and also allows the door to be slightly recessed which I feel looks a little better when doing beaded insets. Also gives a little extra adjustment should a door have a slight twist.

[JNComplete]

That sounds good. Has a customer ever asked about it? Like "i've never seen it that way, is that right?" lol

Jon

I try to make my face frames 7/8ths thick and doors 3/4. Takes care of bumpers and also allows the door to be slightly recessed which I feel looks a little better when doing beaded insets. Also gives a little extra adjustment should a door have a slight twist.