IPE flooring concerns

[Chuck Kiser]

About 15 months ago I installed a IPE floor as part of a larger project for a customer who acted as his own GC. The installation called for 4/4 TG IPE installed directly over 2x12 floor joists 12" OC. No subfloor was used as the elevation was already set to match the enttry into the house. Installation went smoothly and the floor looked great, for awhile. The IPE was onsite for about 4 weeks, stickered and covered against rain. Moisture checks on multiple pieces showed the product to be in the 10 - 12% range. Which I thought resonable for May in Chicago. BTW this is a outdoor (screen room, un-conditioned)installation. Both sides of the IPE were coated with Messmers and the cut ends with Anchor Seal. Each piece drilled and screwed at each joist. Install pic below

https://picasaweb.google.com/1039515...52009446217330

In about 3 months, or so the IPE started to shrink and leave gaps that the HO/GC could not tolerate. Months go by and we wait to see if the IPE would equalize more. It has not changed much, if at all, since the first changes. the pic below shows much of the finished room.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1039515...27704916906978

I get a call the other day from the HO/GC who wants a price from me to cut out the old IPE and install new. The catch, all the cabinets have to stay. He wants to cut around the cabs and patch in the new. My first instinct, after muffled laughter, was to run away. If I do this install any gaps are mine, not his.

So I got to thinking about options.

1) do what he wants and contractually state I'm not responsible for any gaps that may occur. I doubt he will accept this option.

2)sand the existing floor and leave it as a sub-floor and install over it with a thinner product, glueing and screwing. We would have to deal with the elevation change on the entry door to the house.

IN either case the new IPE would have to be on site for enough time to 'fully' equalize to outdoor conditions prior to install. If I go with option 2 can I be sure that the same gap problem will not occur?

Other than passing on the job, am I missing any other options?

[Roger Everett]

[QUOTE=Chuck Kiser;

IN either case the new IPE would have to be on site for enough time to 'fully' equalize to outdoor conditions prior to install.[/QUOTE]

equalize to outdoor conditions, is that an oxymoron.
If it's your material and idea this time, then it could be your liaibility. I would always be leary of HO/GC's,-- bear in mind the Peter Principal.

[BrainFrost]

Chuck - what is the environment under this floor system?

Is it a vented crawl-space, or?

[Aaron Telian]

Can you unfasten the existing Ipe and re-gap it? It's already acclimated.

[Slaughter Construction Co]

I think your first instinct might be your best advice.
Have you checked with your supplier/dealer. There is good deal of info. on line. Google it. Might find something to show to your client.
An outdoor installation is a moving target. It could have the sun shining on it in the A.M. and raining on it in P.M. I don't see how you can guarantee something like that.

[Jerry M]

Ipe will shrink. See this note from a So. Cal. lumber dealer:

In our Southern California climate for instance, 6 months after install it is not uncommon to see gaps approaching 3/8” on air-dried 1x6 product even though original gapping was 1/8”, this product will move so plan ahead for it.

http://jwlumber.info/lumber.php?id=22

I think guaranteeing a "no-gap" or "acceptable gap" install is asking for trouble.

[Chuck Kiser]

Can you unfasten the existing Ipe and re-gap it? It's already acclimated.

That is the HO/GC's thought. Problem as I see it the potential for more issues by cutting around the cabs, picture framing what remains in place. Then cleaning up the boards that were removed, adding a load of blocking to insure whats re-installed falls on a floor joist around the cabs. Plus I'm sure I'd have to get new material to supplement the old. I don't think I would get 100% utilization.

[Chuck Kiser]

Chuck - what is the environment under this floor system?

Is it a vented crawl-space, or?

The new addition sits over a concrete pad. There is no vapor barrier between the concrete and the floor joists. The floor joists are roughly 2 feet above the concrete. There is unobstructed ventilation on 3 sides of the addition.

[BrainFrost]

Tough spot. A guy likes to hold on to good clients. Good luck man.

[philthegreek]

That is the HO/GC's thought. Problem as I see it the potential for more issues by cutting around the cabs, picture framing what remains in place. Then cleaning up the boards that were removed, adding a load of blocking to insure whats re-installed falls on a floor joist around the cabs. Plus I'm sure I'd have to get new material to supplement the old. I don't think I would get 100% utilization.

Chuck,
It will probably be more money to do it that way than to remove all lower cabinets (with counter tops)and just move all the boards. You will probably have a 1/2 width board to put in and you can make sure it's under the most cabinets. I think any other way and you are asking for a move in situation (you may as well move in because you'll be there so frequently) ;-)

Phil