Outsulation installation method

[Dutchman]

Not sure of this should be in Materials & Techniques, but anyway.

In the near future, I'm going to start installing 4" of rigid on the outside of my house...when I have time. I'm very familiar with the product and the general approach, but have never put it on walls.

I'll be using (2) 2" layers, staggered seams, and my windows will be "inies" (sp). I need to develop an idea for the window buck such that the window can be replaced if need be, they are new construction with a nail flange. Part of me says go for it and put the buck right against the window because it's easy (sash can be replaced) but then I think again and wonder if I'm making a mistake by doing that.

But, in general, how are you guys attaching the layers before strapping? I don't want to waste money on fasteners when the strapping will ultimately be the holding power, but I'm certain there will be lengthy delays between my availability to work on my own damn house....or have time from jobs to have guys help me.

Thanks for any input.

[Top Notch]

Dutch check your past JLC issues they did it a few times, also post it in the building science area for more help.
Why not do it in sections as you are prepared to strap it, just leave a flapof house wrap over the sections.

Good luck

[davenorthup]

It has been awhile - innies - meaning the windows are set on the sheathing and the foam extends past that? So you need a 4" buck plus the strapping (likely 3/4").

I will get you some photos that we did for a 2" wall.

When we do a 2" wall we just attach the foam with the strapping. When doing 4" we attach the first layer with 4-6 2.5" screws and washers for roofing foam - they are about 2" diameter.

The second layer I attach each piece with a 5" screw and washers in 2 spots to hold the foam in place and then install the strapping. We have to hit the studs with the strapping and I generally use 7" "Fire Stone" screws for roofing.

Make certain that you map your studs very well (tops and bottoms), you will be very happy you did. And remember that the 7" screw can wander and miss the stud. You will know when it does.

I have done many of these REMOTE walls so feel free to ask more questions....

[davenorthup]

Here you go - 24 photos or so....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/northup...7621900799330/

[David Meiland]

Dave, what's that rectangular vent in the wall right under the peak?

[davenorthup]

Dave, what's that rectangular vent in the wall right under the peak?

If I remember correctly they had a small flat ceiling at the peak of the cathedral....

I think they vented that as a sort of gable vent - house did not have a ridge vent. Homer "owner building" for ya!!!!

Been a few years and we only did that one side of the house. (that is another story)...

[johnsonsmith]

Dryvit Outsulation systems utilize exterior continuous insulation and are engineered, tested rigorously, Code compliant, exterior claddings that provides beauty and protection for the vertical wall surfaces of the building envelope. Most importantly they are highly energy efficient insulated cladding systems that place insulation on the outside of the wall, where building scientists say it is most effective. Literally, the Systems function as a vapor permeable blanket for the building.

[mike maines]

Dryvit Outsulation systems utilize exterior continuous insulation and are engineered, tested rigorously, Code compliant, exterior claddings that provides beauty and protection for the vertical wall surfaces of the building envelope. Most importantly they are highly energy efficient insulated cladding systems that place insulation on the outside of the wall, where building scientists say it is most effective. Literally, the Systems function as a vapor permeable blanket for the building.

And by any chance do you work for Dryvit?

[Alaskan Son]

Dave pretty much summed up the foam installation part pretty well. For the first layer, I've just used nails though because the screwed on 2nd later is usually going on right afterward. For the bucks, it depends on your window flange size a little, but you should be able to use 2x6 ripped down to probably 4-3/4" (depending on your furring strips). Build a box that will fit around the outside of your window with the sill piece slightly angled. Install foam tight to that, and then install furring strips around that frame. Once you install the casing (attached to the buck and the furring strips) you should be good. You may also attach the buck to the furring strips, but it would make it a little more difficult to remove for window replacement.

Hope that helps.

[davenorthup]

My only thought on the 4 3/4" is to check the compression of the foam when attaching to the wall... We used a low PSI EPS and it compressed enough that we had to recut the bucks.

[Ted S.]

Dryvit Outsulation systems utilize exterior continuous insulation and are engineered, tested rigorously, Code compliant, exterior claddings that provides beauty and protection for the vertical wall surfaces of the building envelope. Most importantly they are highly energy efficient insulated cladding systems that place insulation on the outside of the wall, where building scientists say it is most effective. Literally, the Systems function as a vapor permeable blanket for the building.

Sto is better.

[Ted S.]

It has been awhile - innies - meaning the windows are set on the sheathing and the foam extends past that? So you need a 4" buck plus the strapping (likely 3/4").

I will get you some photos that we did for a 2" wall.

When we do a 2" wall we just attach the foam with the strapping. When doing 4" we attach the first layer with 4-6 2.5" screws and washers for roofing foam - they are about 2" diameter.

The second layer I attach each piece with a 5" screw and washers in 2 spots to hold the foam in place and then install the strapping. We have to hit the studs with the strapping and I generally use 7" "Fire Stone" screws for roofing.

Make certain that you map your studs very well (tops and bottoms), you will be very happy you did. And remember that the 7" screw can wander and miss the stud. You will know when it does.

I have done many of these REMOTE walls so feel free to ask more questions....

This post brings back so many memories of searching endlessly for long screws. Who makes them, who sells them, where can I get them...

I used to work with ICF and exterior foam and it felt like 25% of my time was spent looking for long screws. Try that before the internet.

Then there was the screw into the wall and pray that you hit something, oh please let me get meat...

But anyway, nice job Dave. Way nice than any right wing carpenter could do.

[Dutchman]

Great photo's Dave, thanks, and it looks like great workmanship.

So, I see you went for it and covered the flange of the window with your buck. I like that look because its clean and crisp but it still bothers me to some degree due to the replacement aspect. All told, I'll probably do the same thing.

The version of the buck I had in mind was that the buck was also the trim, unlike the extension you did and then a casing. In that case, I would use 5/4 for the buck and call that the trim...butt the siding to that.

The one thing I was thinking about adding to the buck (in either case) was a piece of steel bent for the sill in addition to the sloped wood sill.

Again, thanks for your input, and everybody else's too...well, except for Ted. He's making too much money running blower door tests and has lost his grip on reality...we can't trust him anymore. :-)

[davenorthup]

Great photo's Dave, thanks, and it looks like great workmanship.

So, I see you went for it and covered the flange of the window with your buck. I like that look because its clean and crisp but it still bothers me to some degree due to the replacement aspect. All told, I'll probably do the same thing.

The version of the buck I had in mind was that the buck was also the trim, unlike the extension you did and then a casing. In that case, I would use 5/4 for the buck and call that the trim...butt the siding to that.

The one thing I was thinking about adding to the buck (in either case) was a piece of steel bent for the sill in addition to the sloped wood sill.

No problem and thanks for the compliment.

RE - the buck. I always was taught to leave the window flange accessible to get to it if need be (like a hub cap). Might not be to easy to see but if I went back there to remove the window I would remove the pre-assembled trim, then remove the pre-assembled buck. If I did that I would have complete access to the window flange. I used a ripped 2x4 on edge here, I do not think the 5/4 would cover the whole flange.

I think I put a 15 degree slope on my sills and they are holding up fine thus far (sans metal). Bucks and trim were all cedar sealed all 6 sides.

Some more photos of others.

IMG_0119.jpgIMG_0106.jpgIMG_0255.jpgIMG_0226.jpg

[davenorthup]

This post brings back so many memories of searching endlessly for long screws. Who makes them, who sells them, where can I get them...


But anyway, nice job Dave. Way nice than any right wing carpenter could do.

Yeah it took me awhile to find the 7" screws until I talked to my commercial roofer friend.

My current lead carpenter is quite right leaning and a better carpenter than I. I happen to be a better business person - go figure....