"Modern" windows

[mike maines]

We are updating an older ranch-style home to include large windows and doors, probably somewhat commercial looking. We have little experience in this area. The home faces south and is right on the ocean. What brands have worked for you?

They don't need to be Passivhaus-worthy but we want them to perform well. The units shown are about 5' wide with heights of 5' and 7'. We imagine the units will slide, but the windows might change to an arrangement of awnings and/or casements.

existing.jpgExterior renderings.pdfInterior renderings.pdf

[David Meiland]

Mike, this is a question about what will look "modern"? How about black AL clad wood units?

[mike maines]

David, that is part of the question--the exterior will likely be black or charcoal colored aluminum. The interior could be wood or metal. The units are large so I don't know if our usual suppliers (Marvin, Andersen) will be able to make them.

We are currently installing Arcadia windows on a project designed by outside architect, so that's one option. Our local specialty glass supplier also offers Universal and Peerless windows. Duratherm is near here and we just heard about Oslo.

Almost all of our work is traditional so I'm just trying to get a sense of what other brands we should be considering for oversize, fairly high performance windows and sliding doors. The modern aesthetic will be a result of the size and shape more than the details, but the cleaner the details are the better.

[Chuck Kiser]

I recently installed some custom sized Marvin picture windows and 7' and 8' tall doors. High efficiency aluminum clad wood units with the dark bronze (almost black) exterior. Nice units, not cheap though. Customer loved the results.

[Dancing Dan]

Mike - I increasingly think being comfortable with the warranty/service is right up there for criteria. I'd stick with brands or reps with a good local presence. Our pal Kris might have some ideas.

[S.Joisey]

IT would be good to check if proximity to the ocean affects the manufacturer's warranty, esp if you are considering aluminum clad windows. Some have disclaimers.

Salt air isn't kind to AL.

[mike maines]

Dan, I'll talk to Kris. Probably Nate too.

We've installed a lot of Marvin aluminum clad on oceanfront homes and they seem to be performing fine, but I don't know how long they will last. Definitely will check the warrantees.

[dgbldr]

Mike, I would first try the brand(s) that you normally use and like. This tends to be a regional thing. We use Lincoln a lot and we had no problem ordering large. One set looked exactly like that but larger. 2 big fixed units flanked by casements. I think the total length was 18 ft.

[NW Architect]

Well, first of all (and I know you didn't ask), but you've taken out all the shear resistance on the long axis of the house. I don't see any way to get that much glass in without introducing a steel moment frame carried down to foundation. And meeting energy codes will be entertaining, too.

Now, to windows, the biggest thing to know is that NONE of the manufacturer's test results are likely to have been performed on windows as large as you are proposing. Unless they will run tests on a sample that matches your size (an expensive proposition) you simply will be guessing at the structural capacity and leak resistance of the assembly. If you are on a coast, you are looking at probably a 110mph basic wind speed and elevated exposure rating. So figure out that wind pressure and choose a window tested at a higher Design Pressure than that.

My guess is that you will be looking for DP60 ratings, and that you will not find that in vinyl or "typical" wood frames. Look at fiberglass framed windows, or heavy painted wood, like Kolbe & Kolbe. Style will likely be fixed windows and fixed over awning.

[Leon HI]

Over here here , in Hawaii , where requirements for windows performance are very stringent , specially in the coast, these are some of the most popular:

http://www.fleetwoodusa.net


http://www.westernwindowsystems.com


http://www.vitrocsausa.com

And , by coincindence , i am right now in the process of completing an order for a project on a very similirar style, "Atomic Ranch" or mid-century modern ranch.

[Leon HI]

And, as far as shear strength , if you are willing to reduce the openings at the corners, just enough to incorporate a couple of 4' SIMPSON STRONG-WALL shearwalls on both floors ,connected as per manufacturer's specs so the shear is continuous from roof to basement you should be in good shape.
You can look at their catalog online at:

http://www.strongtie.com/lateralsyst...ml?source=home

[Allan Edwards]

I would second what Leon said, I've used Western & Fleetwood, they are high quality metal windows and look great on the style house designed. All metal, and you can spec the type of glass you want. If you had a large budget you could use a thin framed window like Hopes, but you are talking very expensive windows.

And I agree on the strong walls, I think the come as narrow as 12"-16", so try to work a couple in along with suitable hold downs. If you are in a high wind area, have this engineered.

Allan

[TWhite]

What is the window budget? Without that number we are all just guessing.

[Dick Seibert]

Well, first of all (and I know you didn't ask), but you've taken out all the shear resistance on the long axis of the house. I don't see any way to get that much glass in without introducing a steel moment frame carried down to foundation. And meeting energy codes will be entertaining, too.

Most everything we do has at least some moment frames because large windows are the norm here in the Bay Area, at least in the upper end.

NW must have edited his post because I read it last night and he mentioned delay and expense for NFRC approval. for the last 12 years I've gotten most of my windows from Canada and Germany for superior quality and custom sizes, I am in a position of not being able to order my windows until after framing because I'm going steel column to steel column, I finally got the sizes fine tweaked and have been told now that NFRC approval is going to take "several weeks", without windows2345.jpg installed there is no way I can sheetrock the interior or lath the exterior, so I'm dead in the water while awaiting NFRC approval. I'm pretty much framed in now and will try to remember to take my camera and get some better pictures. This is the second time I've had to wait for NFRC approval on every window. These are R-6.124 (U-0.166) COG IG units (I submitted R-8.547 [U-0.117] to the owner, but he elected higher VLT and laminated glass over U factor), but R Value will drop when the assemblies are rated, even though way above any off-the-shelf windows, still Title 24 requires every window be rated and stickered, frames are from Germany, IG units from Cardinal in the United States, fabricated in Canada and shipped down, that is a 10"0" x 8'0" sliding door in the foreground, the Germans and Canadians don't have our threshold requirements, I've got to do some tricky burying of the threshold, doors are a maximum rise of ½", there is an exception for sliding glass doors of ¾", big deal! All seismic and wind load engineering was done by the Canadian fabricators, so my structural engineer had to review and stamp the Canadian engineering.

I was selected as the contractor on a $50 million steel and glass home, but the structural engineer recently told me that the owner has put it on hold until after he sees the results of the up-coming election.

[NW Architect]

There you go. Dick's photo is pretty much what the new framing for the upper story of the OP's design will have to be.

I didn't talk specifically about the NFRC testing. Seems like it is required in CA, and for the specific windows being supplied to the job. Around here, one can use the ratings on the manufacturer's tested assemblies. Energy performance actually get better with larger openings, since there is less frame per sf of glazing.

Energy isn't the problem. It's not knowing how an oversize window will perform when the window is bigger than the tested sample.

I have a job right now where we are replacing oversized windows. They flexed so much in the wind that the glass actually walked sideways in the frames and owners could awake to a 1/8" open gap between outside of glazing and inside of frame on fixed windows.