Computer Assisted Drawing

[phillip]

Since I am laid up from a shoulder surgery, I figured it would be a good time to learn a drafting program.

I mostly do remodeling
I occasional do drawings
I am still running xp

So now the triangle problem...
Fast, Good or Cheap. Pick two.
Cheap would be nice


I await your recommendations

Thanks,
Phil

[jstoddard]

Well, _regardless_ of what other CAD/Design programs you wind up looking at - you should learn how to use SketchUp. Even if you find there's benefit to a building-specific CAD program I've listed below. It's becoming universally accepted across a bunch of different disciplines. I'd take some of your down-time to learn SketchUp -watch the dozens of video tutorials that are out there on YouTube and other places... particularly how to use SU for drawing buildings.
The "Pro" version gives you the ability to use SU for working drawings and also import/export things you create - at $500 it's a bargain for the power you have available. That doesn't mean it's the only design software you'd ever need - most people use it in conjunction with something else. But if you want to see what it can do on it's own - take a look at Dan Tyree's website http://www.dantyree.com/plans (He has a new site layout and it's kind of slow, at least on my computer... so be patient)

There are dozens of CAD programs out there - but IMO only a handful that are strictly geared toward remodelers and that are professional enough to use for real projects.

The three market leaders are

- SoftPlan Pro
- Chief Architect (Pro version -whatever they're calling it now)
- Envisioneer (CADSoft)

I'm going to let the companies and other users sell you or not - IMO any of them would work for you - any of them would easily cover the needs of a remodeler. SoftPlan and Envisioneer have more complete materials take-off facility than Chief...but lots of remodelers like Chief for other reasons. Take some time and check them all out - check out their user communities online, look a the work people are doing with them - and finally try them out so you can see how they "draw". Chances are the last item - how intuitive you find the way they operate generally, will be the deciding factor for you.

The "Second Tier" that are worth looking at are

- DataCAD / DataCAD Lite
- VectorWorks

Lots o power for the dollar but the learning curve is going to be much tougher than the first three listed.

And then there are higher-end traditional CAD programs used in architecture.

- Autodesk: RevIT Architect / AutoCAD
- ArchiCAD (Graphisoft/Nemetschek)

[mike maines]

Phillip, as a designer at a residential design/build firm that does a lot of remodeling, I'll echo Joe's recommendation: Sketchup is the rare program that hits all corners (or sides?) of your triangle. It's great for working out problems, it's great for presenting ideas to clients, and it's versatile. It's relatively easy to learn enough to be productive, though like any program it takes time to get really good results.

My only complaint about Sketchup, and maybe it's that I've only been putting effort into learning it for the last four years (with six years of dabbling before that), is that even the pro version does not make acceptable working drawings. For that I use Autocad LT, but the learning curve with Autocad is steep and long, and it's not cheap.

The way I describe it is that Autocad LT is basically like hand-drafting, albeit with more precision and some time-saving features. Sketchup is like working with modeling clay. Softplan, Chief Architect, and Archicad (the three other programs I have a modicum of experience with) have more in common with computer programming than with design--it's all about inputs and parameters, not like drawings or modeling. That said, there are plenty of people who get excellent results with those programs.

[jstoddard]

PS - SketchUp is free, at least for basic modeling, so you can't get much cheaper than that. You can do a lot with the free version, and the last I knew there was no restriction for commercial use etc. (BTW - that's something I'd expect to change once Trimble gets ramped up with it...)

JLS

[phillip]

I will take a look at Sketchup again...
I was also looking at archemedes, not updated often but I will play with them both
thanks!!!

[clydewater]

I echo the statements above and have SU and Chief Architect. They are both very good. CA is not cheap, though they have a Home designer version that is reasonably priced

If you want to learn AutoCAD Functions on the cheap, I would also look at IntelliCAD and AcceliCAD. They are a lot cheaper than AutoCAD and are more functional than ACAD LT
Here is a link.

http://www.autodsys.com/

I should note there are several vendors who sell a version of IntelliCAD. I have used products from this company and they are great to deal with. He also has an Architectural program called AcceliARCH which adds functionality to the IntelliCAD, ACAD or AcceliCAD programs

[parkwest]

Softplan has a Studio design software for free. I haven't tried it but watched the video on it and it looked like a good way for you to get the "feel" of the program without any cash outlay.

http://studio.softplan.com/help/

[GregBradley]

No matter what you are going to use for your use, you are probably going to want to use Sketchup for some or even all of your work. Even if you aren't going to use it primarily for designing stuff in wood like built-ins, cabinets, etc. you will find that the following guide is well worth the $13:

http://store.finewoodworking.com/fin...ource=WW001UPS

Even though I'm familiar with a bunch of different CAD programs even using AutoCAD to design houses 25 years ago, Sketchup is a different way of thinking about drawing and Dave Richards does a really good job of getting you thinking about drawing in the way Sketchup works.

After using some of the free tutorials I bought Dave's and kind of feel that the other ones were a bad deal, even for free.

[johnny watt]

I bought Chief last year because I wanted to see some options in 3d on some plans. But I still can’t use it very well. The drawing I attached took a few hours every night for a couple weeks. It is cool to get it to draw a lot of detail with a little input. But there are a million things to select and they are not intuitive in many cases. Plus the program has quirks. My version I could not get the contours to work but the newer version does work for me.

It uses a software key and so I can only have the program on one computer. I would much prefer a hardware key so I can use it at different offices. I wish they stored my files and charged me for each printing or charged for saving it instead of the high price they charged me for the software. Then I would use it much more and much sooner. As is, you can download the whole program free but cannot save or print.

[parkwest]

My oldest son, when he was in high school, used Softplan to "design" a castle.

He imported a layout of an European castle, then traced it, generated working drawings and a material list for the castle... I can't recall how many yards of concrete and blocks exactly, but it was A LOT!

AND he got an A+++ for his effort.

[slipperypete]

Let me throw out a disclaimer that I've only had Chief for 3 weeks and I may return it to purchase a different option.

It uses a software key and so I can only have the program on one computer. I would much prefer a hardware key so I can use it at different offices. I wish they stored my files and charged me for each printing or charged for saving it instead of the high price they charged me for the software. Then I would use it much more and much sooner. As is, you can download the whole program free but cannot save or print.

Johnny -

You can deactivate Chief on your PC and activate the license at another PC as many times as you like and it only takes about 20 seconds to do it each time (after the initial setup on that PC). Like you, I work at different offices and I have a need to be able to use Chief at multiple sites. I have remote access to all of PCs so if I forget to de-register the license at home... I just remote in, deactivate the license and then activate it on the local PC.

As far as the files... I use Dropbox. Chief doesn't recommend using file syncing programs like Dropbox or Sugarsync, but I've have no problems so far. I moved all my data to dropbox and updated the program preferences. Currently I am working from 2 different PCs without a problem.

[johnny watt]

I never set up remote with my computer because I always perceived it as opening the door to a security breach. I have no idea if that is the case or not but I figured if I can get in then someone else can get in.

Deactivating and activating does not fit in with my ADHD personality. I would have to either remember to deactivate or else set up remote access. And then store the password somewhere easy to get to, yet safe. Chief does give a second password that they make out to be some secret backup. I think it is an offer to put it on two machines without coming out and saying so, but I have not used mine thus far.

My file comment was a tangent topic pipedream of mine. I feel one of the big players might be able to capture more market with incremental sales by offering the program for free but charging by the “file save” and for printing. And if they offered hosting the files too then it would make them the most convenient.

[StephenLong]

I am a remodeling contractor, and my needs for a drafting program are primarily for kitchen design. I would like to find a program that allows me to do simple plan views and convert them to elevations. It seems like most CAD programs are way more complex than that and there for have a much steeper learning curve.

Any suggestions??

Stephen

[mike maines]

Stephen, something like Chief Architect or Softplan might be your best bet. Or Sketchup Pro.

[tjbnwi]

Solid Builder easily does elevations.

Slice through your plan, discard the area you don't want, it generates the elevation automatically.

I don't know of any program that does not have a learning curve, and complexity to it. Once the time is spent to learn the program, things become easier.

Tom