mahogany T&G finish

[S.Joisey]

When installing a mahogany T&G porch floor, I like to coat each board all six sides prior to installation.

Downside is the boards become scuffed during installation. And it is tougher to set them tight due to buildup of finish in the grooves.

Ideally, I'd second coat them after installation, but oil finishes don't dry properly when second coated (On my next deck, I'll be using Messmers for Hardwood.)

Any solutions?

I'm considering using Woodlife Classic as the 1st coat before installation, since it says it won't interfere with top coats. Then the Messmers after installation.

Has anyone tried this?

[dave_k]

I'm trying out an epoxy finish by System Three this week. The material was just delivered this morning, I haven't had a chance to use it yet.

There is a primer and a topcoat. The primer goes on water thin, penetrates deep and if used on all 6 sides is marketed as completely waterproofing the wood. If it goes on thin and penetrates instead of builds it may be just the ticket for what you're doing.

http://www.systemthree.com/store/pc/Clear-Coat-c14.htm
http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrar..._finishing.pdf

[ThingOfBeauty]

A finisher I respect is done with poly/Sikkens and done with Penofin/Messmers, is using Flood CWP.
We've certainly tried everthing else with mediocre results.
CWF.JPG
Dave, are you concerned about the UV resistance of the epoxy?

[dave_k]

Dave, are you concerned about the UV resistance of the epoxy?

Yes I am. The epoxy is a primer. The topcoat I'm using is a catalyzed polyurethane enamel that's designed for marine use. It has UV absorbers in it.

I'm using this finish on a table I built for my own use. I'm also going to finish some maple, cherry and oak scraps and leave them outside to weather. I'm just curious to see if this primer seals well enough to use common domestic lumber outdoors.

[S.Joisey]

I emailed Messmers about their product over Woodlife, and got this response:


We appreciate your interest in using our UV Plus for Hardwoods product.
You ask some good questions and I can understand your dilemma. The short answer is that I don't think that the UV Plus for Hardwoods will penetrate through the Woodlife. We like to have the UV Plus go right into the wood to be most effective. You may try doing a light coat of UV Plus, basically hand wiping the product on the wood, and then after installation coming back with another light coat on the surface wood. I hope this helps, please feel free to call us with additional questions and / or comments.

[S.Joisey]

Dave K -

I looked at the System 3 web site. Is it made for floors? Looks like it could be slippery when wet.

A problem I've seen with film type finishes is when water inevitable gets underneath. There is no where to go, and then t makes a mess.

I could be wrong, but I'd think the possibility of water getting through with T&G would be great.

I'd like to see pics of your finished table, though. Some of the projects posted on the System 3 web site look neat.

[S.Joisey]

A finisher I respect is done with poly/Sikkens and done with Penofin/Messmers, is using Flood CWP.
We've certainly tried everthing else with mediocre results.
Attachment 25675
Dave, are you concerned about the UV resistance of the epoxy?

I've used CWF on PT decks. Haven't used it on hardwoods.

What does your finisher like about it?

Their web site doesn't say anything about not doing a 2nd coat. It also says water cleanup.

I wonder what it's made of?

[dave_k]

Dave K -

I looked at the System 3 web site. Is it made for floors? Looks like it could be slippery when wet.

A problem I've seen with film type finishes is when water inevitable gets underneath. There is no where to go, and then t makes a mess.

I could be wrong, but I'd think the possibility of water getting through with T&G would be great.

I'd like to see pics of your finished table, though. Some of the projects posted on the System 3 web site look neat.

I think the clear coat primer is a little different than other film finishes. It's a true 2 part epoxy finish, mixed 2:1. I used it today, it is a little thicker than I thought it would be but it does really soak in. I got some sapwood and some knots in the slabs that make up my table. The sapwood drank the stuff in like a sponge, the knotty sections a little less so. I think the wood gets so impregnated with epoxy it becomes petrified.

It's not cheap to apply though and it says something like "1 hour working time" on the application instructions. I applied it at 1 PM and as of 6 pm it's still tacky. It says on the instructions that it's really temp and humidity sensitive. Today is on the cool dry side (about 20 degrees F cooler than recommended so maybe that's why it's taking so long). There is an accelerator available for the stuff but I didn't get any. I also mixed in a couple of drops of Amber Transtint dye to give it that spar varnish look which might be slowing things down as well.

The primer is apparently compatible with a wide variety of topcoats. I have some spar varnish kicking around that I'll try on a test piece.

This is a pretty expensive finish to buy and apply. I think it would have to be a pretty upscale installation to justify using this product. I'll know a little more about it as things progress. There are a lot of possibilities if this stuff works like it supposed to.

[ThingOfBeauty]

I've used CWF on PT decks...What does your finisher like about it?

It may be more about what doesn't work than knowledge that it does.
What we have tried and been less than thrilled with:
--film-forming solvent-based polyurethanes such as Sikkens
--Penetrating oils such as Messmers and Penofin
--Leaving alone to 'silver out'

I wonder what it's made of?

Me too...anyone out there know much about this stuff?

[kfc510]

What's been your problem with Penofin? (Besides the pita of regular re-applying, that is)

kevin

[S.Joisey]

What's been your problem with Penofin? (Besides the pita of regular re-applying, that is)

kevin

Can you 2nd coat Penofin, Kevin, without it becoming tacky?

[kfc510]

Oh yeah, you have to apply multiple coats (at least on hardwood). If I can I like to have my painter do all sides of the boards a while before cutting, then another coat after cutting and installing, then he recommends yet another in 6 mos. to a year.

Then you get to do it every year or two forever...

But you don't have to strip the old when you re-apply, so it's not too big a deal. Definitely wipe off the excess, though.

[ThingOfBeauty]

Many of our clients think it doesn't last long enough.
Penofin looks good for about a month or two (on sunny decks). A bit longer in the shade.
Then looks flat and dull, but uniform, for a few more months; then streaky and uneven.
You can refinish it 2x/yr if you want your deck to look sweet, but it smells and is sticky for a week or two and costs a lot.
Same experience with Messmers.
We have one client who keeps an ipe deck in furniture condition. He sands and refinishes annually with Sikkens. He told me himself that he was shocked how fast it degrades, and refinishes it himself because it would be too expensive to pay someone.

[S.Joisey]

Being able to re-coat without stripping is a big advantage over other penetrating oils.

Do you scrub the deck to clean it before re coating?

[S.Joisey]

Many of our clients think it doesn't last long enough.
Penofin looks good for about a month or two (on sunny decks). A bit longer in the shade.
Then looks flat and dull, but uniform, for a few more months; then streaky and uneven.
You can refinish it 2x/yr if you want your deck to look sweet, but it smells and is sticky for a week or two and costs a lot.
Same experience with Messmers.
We have one client who keeps an ipe deck in furniture condition. He sands and refinishes annually with Sikkens. He told me himself that he was shocked how fast it degrades, and refinishes it himself because it would be too expensive to pay someone.

Most all my clients want their mahogany clear coated. I tell them it is lots of work. They still want it done.

Then by the next year, they call me about why their deck doesn't look so good.

Except for one mahogany stairway with cedar trim I built about 5 years ago.

The clients are there in the summer. Before they go to Florida for the winter, they put another coat of Sikkens on the stairs.

By the time they get back in the spring, any tackiness is gone.

They are pleased as punch with the stairs-they always look gorgeous. The owners just don't realize (or care) that they are sticky for a couple months in the fall : )

Doug, are you telling me that Floods CWF hold up better than the others?