Is there an App for this?

[Allan Edwards]

This is what makes custom work so hard, dealing with the minutia and doing it with 6-8 people in the loop.

In a house we are building, we roughed in for an in-wall valve at plumbing top out stage in anticipation of a cabinet being built for some type of undermount sink. Months later, the client changes their mind and purchases antique stone lav’s (sight unseen) from distributor in Malibu Ca. who bought them from someone in France. They are very expensive.

I have to wire the money to the vendor, have 6-7 phone calls with distributor and shipping company just to get them here. Couple of months later they are shipped (each lav in 7 pieces) to job site, each one weighs 2500 lbs. We have to unload and move upstairs. Then a discussion starts regarding the faucets:

Architect Said:

I spoke to Jim at ABC Plumbing Fixtures regarding the wall valve height at the master vanities. The desired height of the spout, where the water comes out, not the location in the wall, is 4-6" above sink. He said 4" is really the minimum although code is 1 1/2", but to never exceed 6" because of splash. That being said, let me check the actual faucet spec. I believe the spout has a drop of about 2" from the valve location. If we allow 5" height +2" spout turn +37" vanity height that puts us at 44"H on the wall. We can lower even further to 43" and use the minimum of 4" between sink and faucet. Is anyone following me???

Allan replies:

Please see cut sheet for faucet, note the page says “not approved”, I assume that is incorrect. Based on this can you give us a measurement on how high you want faucet above the finished floor, or above the stone lav. We have plumbers scheduled to return to the job Monday.

Architect replies:

The stone counter is 37 1/2" but the actual sink is carved out lower, about 36" . The spout is 1 7/16" lower than the valve on the wall (not 2") like I was figuring. I think the lower the better- 43 1/2" - 44" works for me!

Owner chimes in:

Let's go with 6.5" above stone lav or 43.5" above floor assuming lav is 37". That will give us 5" on the faucet height and should be low enough to make the mirror work for two short and shrinking homeowners.

Architect replies:

Just to verify, pipe at wall plumbed at 44". Spout has just under a 1.5" drop which means water coming out at approx 42.5".


Allan replies:

Thanks, we are plumbing so that where the water comes out is 44”. The photos show the lavs being 37-1/2” high.


Architect replies:

Ok- to make everyone perfectly clear: the valve out of the wall needs to be at 44".

Allan replies:

Do want spout at 44" or the the turned down part of the spout at 44"


We actually had another 8-10 email and text exchanges, 2 meetings, and 5-6 phone calls regarding where the faucet is to be located and the stone backsplash they want. Of course all of this could be resolved with a drawing!

So for this one item, master bath lavs, I must have several hours invested. You just can't charge enough in this business!

[tjbnwi]

Allan

If you are looking for and app that you could have marked up the dimensions on the vanity, I believe MyMeasures will do it.

I'll try it and get back to you. Is it ok if I steal your photo to use?

Tom

[parkwest]

2500# sinks on the second floor??? What did you do structurally about the added floor load?

[Ottoman]

I believe the app your looking for is called a change order.

[Allan Edwards]

I was just venting a bit, I stopped for a moment and realized how much time and energy my architect, designer, 2 owners, project manager, stone mason, plumber, and I spent discussing such a mundane matter a sink and faucet spout. This is one of 30-40 time consuming construction exercises we are going through on one house.

Yes Park, we did take into consideration the load on the floor trusses.

[Ted S.]

It pretty much sums up why I quit my dream of becoming a famous architect. I'd go out of my mind having to listen to everyone opinions.

[Lavrans]

It pretty much sums up why I quit my dream of becoming a famous architect. I'd go out of my mind having to listen to everyone opinions.

Ted- if you're a famous architect you don't have to listen to anyone's opinion. It's the not-so-famous ones who have to listen to people. Those who aren't really sure they'll ever be more than just a local dude.

[Lavrans]

Allan- doesn't it seem like those "little details" are the ones that wind up taking the most time? And then while spending hours and hours on some little thing, something critical like roofing or floor might get 5 or 10 minutes of actual time...

[Ohiobuilder]

I was just venting a bit, I stopped for a moment and realized how much time and energy my architect, designer, 2 owners, project manager, stone mason, plumber, and I spent discussing such a mundane matter a sink and faucet spout. This is one of 30-40 time consuming construction exercises we are going through on one house.

Sounds something like the 80/20 rule - 80% of your time is spent focusing on 20% of the tasks.

I worked for a millwork shop when I was in high school - the owner used to say the the definition of custom was "loss of money". He would not touch anything custom - only stock moldings that he offered. The same can be true in building homes if not managed properly I suppose - and yes - you couldn't charge enough. How would you charge for that - just get it done and move on.

How do you handle you communication? Email or through buildertrend?

[Allan Edwards]

Communication is handled via email, with a bit of texting mixed in. As to using Builder Trend for communication, forget about it, my clients are not going to log in to using the messaging or comment folders. I will say my clients are upscale in terms of communication, they are all business people who understand the importance of it, they use and respond well to emails and include all parties when emailing and use the “reply all” function.

When I receive verbal directions or we have a meeting I am always careful to send an email confirmation outlining in detail the final results of a conversation or email.

The issue with me is how with certain clients in certain situations the decision making process is wrought with delay and ambiguity, sometimes complicated by spouses not agreeing, I have to be very careful that everyone is clear on how to proceed.

From a production gain viewpoint, with the goal being to have as much production gain as possible, most of my work I am trying to make a 16%-20% markup. I might spend 3 hours of management time putting in a $90,000 foundation, then spend 6 hours of time installing a $400 bathroom faucet. I guess it all evens out and that is just the nature of “custom”.

Another issue is tracking and following the chain of emails on a topic that extends over several days or weeks, I have to discipline myself to create folders for that topic for both received and sent emails. That is one advantage of using the comment function in Builder Trend or Co-Construct, I just can’t demand that my clients use it. I currently have 25 or so emails on a job regarding a chimney cap selection, there are 7-8 people who have contributed to the discussion. The emails are spread out over 3-4 weeks, so I am using the search function a lot. Again, this is just the nature of custom building.

Just venting a bit.

[Ohiobuilder]

Allan,

I agree. I don't expect my clients or subs to log into Co-construct to send me a note. But, when I post a topic on trim, they get an email with what I said. They reply to that email, just like any other email, and Co-construct attaches it back to the trim item. Same goes for foundation, plumbing, etc... it eliminates the need for folders.

They're still using email the way they always have. The system sits in between, though, and organizes it. In your chimney cap example, the conversation over several weeks isn't a big deal since all of the chimney cap emails are all attached to that selection item. They aren't intermingled with a bunch of other stuff, and I don't have to create a separate folder for it.

Then I can share comments on that item with just the client, just the sub, or have a private note for my own records. I've attached a screenshot from selection sheet regarding windows. On this one, I've shared all of the conversations with the clients the architect and the window salesman. But, I could have each comment seen by different people, if I wanted.

[Total-Home]

It is the little details that make the difference between custom and spec or production.

We are bidding a large job and the architect asked how long we thought it would take. I told him we budgeted on 12 months. We have done similar projects as specs and if we did not have an architect and an owner i told him it was 6 to 8, but with them it was 12 months becuase of the decision making process and chain.

He understood.

I try to contain each e-mail to a specific subject if possible, but it does tend to drift.

[parkwest]

...Another issue is tracking and following the chain of emails on a topic that extends over several days or weeks, I have to discipline myself to create folders for that topic for both received and sent emails. That is one advantage of using the comment function in Builder Trend or Co-Construct, I just can’t demand that my clients use it. I currently have 25 or so emails on a job regarding a chimney cap selection, there are 7-8 people who have contributed to the discussion. The emails are spread out over 3-4 weeks, so I am using the search function a lot. Again, this is just the nature of custom building...

Have you tried gmail and goggle voice? Gmail seems to do a good job of tracking all related emails in one message file and google voice is pretty good for tracking text messages the same way.

[Ted S.]

There's a use for an app of software where you respond to an email, but instead of going directly to the other party, it goes through a 3rd party filter that tracks everything and keeps historical records on the particular subject. That would be good.

[Ted S.]

Whenever I hear homeowners, clients, or contractors, talking about their design ideas, material sections, or opinions about any aspect of design...I immediately disregard them as untalented and silly. Good design is a being in itself and none of us have to ability to dictate it, we can only nurture it.

I think I got the attitude right but I never became famous for some reason. Nobody ever asked me to design anything. They just put me in the construction trailer and told me to figure out other peoples designs.

As far as I'm concerned, there can be 100 emails about the faucet height, but it only belongs in one place, so that is where I'd put it, with or without Co-Construct or any other App.