kitchen sink cutouts

[Mbeezo]

As some of you might recall from past posts I work with Rebuilding Together doing home repairs with volunteers. We just had one this past weekend. My task is to be what is called the House Captain which means I oversee the project and get as much done in 8 hours for a needy homeowner. With that in mind I have to ask about kitchen sink cut outs in ready made off the shelf laminate countertops. We only get one shot at these and anyone, even me, wants to check and recheck things so we are not going out and buying another top. So with that background I have some questions...

Normal kitchen double bowl sink is often refered to as 33 x22. But can the inside cut out line on all brands of sinks be the same? I know when I have a top made I am usually asked what brand of sink I am using which has led me to believe that they may not all be the same size cut out. Yet when I get the top the sink always fits.

I am asking because I am thinking if I could make a template that would work I could save some time and agony by the volunteer who is going to be cutting the sink out. Is that possible to make one template that fits all or is there already a template made that would work that I just need to buy.

Other thing I hate is that the makers of the sinks allow so little area around the edge of the top of the sink. One slip of the saw and you could have exposed wood around the edges of the sink when the allow less than 1/2 inch on each side of the flange where the hold down bolts go. I used to see a stainless steel extender ring used under some sinks to compensate for bad cuts or maybe for damage that was starting around the counterop. Have not seen them for years-anyone know what I am talking about and seen them?

[Mbeezo]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

have found the stainless steel rings I was talking about. you can find them at www.vanceind.com. May have to carry one on the next rebuilding day. Probably should get one to try out before that day but something to keep in mind. Now just need to check to see how often they will fit anyone's sink since I often do not know what is being provided the day we do the project until I show up at the site. Hopefully this is a one size fits all approach.

[Happy Home]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

The last new SS sink I got did not have a paper in the instructions or cardboard from the box template. It too was in a post form CT with old cabinets. I have the same concerns about "standard" and others cutting out the opening when there is barely enough lip overage as you have explained.

If I'm cutting, regardless of new / used I make a cardboard template to make the cut out. I make it tight. May have to do a bit with the belt sander. I just measure the outside of the hold down channel, make a sq template. I recall I matched the corners from the old cut out to start - matching the arc with my various hole saws and transferring the arc to the cut out. It wasn't difficult to figure out.

Positioning the cut out / sink as you know can be tricky too. On older cabs the sink can be real tight to the front of the inside cabinet. Check the clearance / see what it looks like before demo. The new must also clear the inside panel. Again the "standard" or equidistant front back measurement sometimes doesn't apply. The last one I did the sink flange was very close to the BS radius because it had to clear the front of the cab and be able to screw the hold downs.

[parkwest]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

It's been a while since I did a laminate counter top, everything is either granite or corian these days, but I do recall back in the day, the sinks all had a template to use for cutting out, for each sink that was located in the box or was part of the box the sink came in.

Not too sure if there is a "standard, one size fits all" type of template. I would go with the manufactures template, since sinks come in all sizes and shapes.

[Anders]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

I'm not sure I can be much help with your standard cut out questions as I've seen standard and custom sizes on sink. Get the sink and make a template, then there's no issue.
I do have a question myself though regarding what thoughts you all may have when it comes to a butcher top counter and a farm sink. I have a customer who is buying a butcher top counter (one slab) and wants us to cut and install the farm sink. The sink is an under-mount, if you call it that with a farm sink. I don't have too much of an issue cutting out the cabinet face below, it's the counter I'm concerned about. There is no way to cover or go back and fix a screw up, and it needs to match the rounded corners of the sink perfectly to look right.
I would love any suggestions, or helpful hints from anyone who has done this.
Thanks!

[Allan Edwards]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

Beez

As standard operating procedure we have all sinks on our jobs delivered to our countertop fabricator for proper mounting. We don't use cut sheets or templates, they have the actual sink in their possession. We never have problems.

[joseph]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

cut it out in plywood first then use it with a router to make the cut .though wonder if maple will chip much in corners ? I would think it would be only slight tear out that the round over bit would hide . Seems like I have done two of those ikea ,but just do not recall it being any issue . I do recall jigsaw was slow cutting in maple .

[SteveC]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

If the top shop is asking for the sink you are using wouldn't that give you a clue that all are not the same? :) "Yet when I get the top the sink always fits"
The Houdi stainless rim (?) sinks you may remember were not fudge rims, they hung cast iron sinks in the opening and they too had a 1/2" allowance.
I see those goof rings that beez found but if you screw up the original cut what guarantees you won't screw up making the open to fit the goof ring ?
Get the sink, use the template, or the inverted sink, down cut blades and care.

[Mbeezo]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

Guys, part of the reason I am asking is not so I can cut the top out but so I could try to turn the job over to a volunteer to cut the sink hole out. I have seen some of the same issues that you guys are talking about-front and back dimensions and getting the hold down bolts to work, over cutting, someone cutting the thing square in the corners instead of rounded. I also know that even I make mistakes when it comes to measurments and adding or subtracting 1/2 inch off the dimensions, cutting the thing too small and then recutting the thing 3 times to get the sink to fit.

As I said, the sinks we get are often donated from somewhere, often come with no instructions or packaging but for some reason for the last 2 years they are always the same brand. My guess is the makers of the sinks get a bunch that have either been returned or have a slight imprefection in them and donate them to the organization. But so that no one can return one or complain about the brand and bad mouth the company there is never a paper trail that I have seen.

As far as them being different I am not talking about some sinks that cost several hundred dollars or have some sort of odd ball shape and 3 different type bowls. These are what I would call the $50 stainless steel double bowl sink that is the beginner models for sinks. I just need a template that I could turn someone loose with. Sounds like I need to just make my own.

So Allan, you mentioned your fabricator getting your sinks. I am guessing they either take the time to measure them up or get on line and find model 7612 sink needs this type of cut out and use that if there is no template with the package? I guess I am going to have to ask my counter top guys how they do it.

someone else mentioned down cut blades. I usually cut my sinks from the back side since it seems the backsplash is almost always in the way of the jig saw to cut that back line. Am I doing something wrong or just using the wrong saw?

[philthegreek]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

I think you guys are not seeing the context here. mBeezo is working with Rebuilding Together, a non-profit rehab group with volunteers, much like Americares Home Front. They need down-n-dirty quick items to get in and out in one day.
Beezo, I am not sure how fast you need to go, but with these groups, most of the workers are non-skilled so you may end up doing the tricky stuff yourself.
I always measure clip rail outside to clip rail outside. Mark with a pencil, then a sharpie when the sink opening is centered. 2" holesaw for corners and circular saw for straights. I don't know how much faster you could go.

Phil

[parkwest]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

It's another volunteer home, of course it is going to have screw ups in it.

Even the space shuttle had screw ups and they had tons of money and professionals working on it.

My advice is hire good painters and buy tons of caulking.


A few years back, we had a Habitat for Humanity house being built right across a field from my house so I got to watch the "progress" being made by these volunteers. It was a PR deal being ram-rodded by the then governor's wife and was being "built" by women only.

After about a year of not much happening and the framing looking like it was done by a bunch of blind monkeys, they finally brought in a contractor to finish the job so they could have the big PR celebration and the governor thanked all the women who had "participated" in the project. ROFLMAO

Moral of the story; No matter had bad you screw it up, it can always be fixed. LOL


Question: Why don't lawyers or doctors volunteer their time for DIY'ers projects for those that want to do their own lawsuits or operations?

Hey, I like that idea; Lawsuits for Humanity & Operations for Humanity

[dlhunter]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

Beezo, I am not sure how fast you need to go, but with these groups, most of the workers are non-skilled so you may end up doing the tricky stuff yourself.
I always measure clip rail outside to clip rail outside. Mark with a pencil, then a sharpie when the sink opening is centered. 2" holesaw for corners and circular saw for straights. I don't know how much faster you could go.

Phil

I'll second that. Only thing I would add is I use blue tape to see my lines better

[tomthetoolman40]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

Mark,

Template making 101:

Flip sink upside down on your cardboard. Trace around perimeter of sink. Cut template 1/4" smaller all the way around.

Now please remit $9.99 to my account. ;>)

[dgbldr]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

So Allan, you mentioned your fabricator getting your sinks. I am guessing they either take the time to measure them up or get on line and find model 7612 sink needs this type of cut out and use that if there is no template with the package?

Neither. My fabricator already has templates for all sinks. He just wants the sink to make sure I don't screw up (change the sink after placing the order, etc).

[Mbeezo]

Re: kitchen sink cutouts

Phil, I agree that it is best if a trained guy could do the cut outs. And sometimes that works out. However, often it is a day when I am doing so little work, mostly just getting stuff out for the crew, answering who is to do what next, where the one of the 2 hammers on the site is at, what kind of paint brush do you use, why do we use ceiling paint inside a closet on the walls which are obviously not ceilings.. Just cannot be everywhere at once. I do lots of just going around putting out fires and helping out when I can.

Tell me about cutting out the top. You mention a circular saw. You cutting from the back of the top or the formica side? Not sure if my circular saw gets close enough to the backsplash to do a cut out line along there. Maybe my battery one which I think has a table only an inch from the blade. Is that enough clearance to cut out the top and do it on the formical side? Flipping the top over has always been problematic for me since on other projects I might be working alone and always hated to move the top with only an inch or so of material left after you cut out the sink hole.