Makita vs. Festool

[ericbuggeln]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

Go get em Josh, the Festool hating that goes on in this forum is unreal. Have any of you guys been to JLC Live lately? All the demonstrators who arent being paid by Bosch are using Festool. Even people being sponsored by Bosch use Festool when Bosch isnt footing the bill. Of course i hate people who drive Maseratis, bc i cant afford one, but if i had the money it would be the first thing i would buy and it would be so much better then anything i ever owned. When you put down the most progressive company in our industry, you just sound petty, thanks Eric

[kreg McMahon]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

You go Eric !!!!!! I can buy pretty much any tools I want. And I Do. Festool doesn't not own me. I promote and use their tools
Because I want to. So does norm and tommy. Which they also buy them. And yes demonstrators. Use them. Cuz they can afford them and cuz they work !! They make me
Money.

They back up their products. They service them. Quickly. Not the bs this guy went through with his milwaukee issues months of waiting.

But that's enough. Don't need to go on and on and beat a dead horse. I have to and listen to rock and roll band tonight !!!

Rock on Eric and the troops !!! Oh say can you see by the dawns early light what so proudly we hail our festoooools !!!!! Wtf. Just messing. Off I go Rick and roll !!!

[ericbuggeln]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

Kreg, Im going to a Rock and Roll concert tonight also, maybe we are long lost brothers?
Over the years I have become friends with many of the Festool trainers, employees, reps, and dealers and while I have gotten one tool for free, I don't owe them anything either, just trying to help others learn about the company that I believe in.
Im sure if I saw the paychecks of some of the guys on this forum I would be embarrassed for myself, but I made it happen bc I wanted the best. I have a few Makitas and they are way better then most, but you dont see me saying anything bad about Makita just bc Im a Festool guy. Eric

[ycf dino]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

I have a bunch of ply to rip down for custom closet cabinets and will be cutting my dadoes with the router. 16 doors will be purchased from a cabinet shop. I may end up with a few more cabinet projects after this, but my next year or two will probably be building decks and remodeling kitchens.

Thank guys...have fun spending my money!

JayNos,
connected tracks or using long tracks is not the best way.

I used to get my doors from Doormaster in S. Amboy.

Next to Montheath lumber.
Better to order the doors prefinished.

You can stop from the ez-shop and have a personal demo of new ways.
you can use any tool that you like and a small section of any track.

3586 kennedy road.
south plainfield nj 07080

if you take 287 is 15 minutes away.

tx

d

[JAlvis]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

The first thing to remember is the Tool doesn't dictate the quality of work being accomplished. Sometimes the best way to build a skill-set is to use less to do more....most of us(including myself) would benefit from building more jigs than buying another tool.

Not everyone needs the "best" for the work being done. This thinking doesn't make one a "hater" but sensible.

A demonstrator using Festool tells me that Festool is good for Demonstrating. Its best to make buying decisions based on application rather than 'who' uses the product.

[justinm]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

The JLC presenters use Festool because Festool is a sponsor and pays to have their tools used. The second that Festool no longer sees a benefit to sponsoring the JLC shows another manufacturer will come in and pay to have their tools used instead.

Whenever I need to purchase a tool I take an honest look at the tasks I need to do and the features of the different tools I am considering. I make my buying decision based on whichever I feel will yield the best results while giving me a return on my investment in the shortest amount of time. If that tool is a Makita that is what I buy. If it is a Festool then that is what I buy. I use this criteria for every purchase I make.

If I were looking at two carpenters for one position and the first showed up in a truck full of Systainers full of Festool tools and the second showed up with a truck full of professional grade tools with a bunch of homemade jigs and shoot boards to maximize what he had, guess which one I would hire. The second one. Both may be excellent craftsmen and take great pride in their work, but I place a higher value on ingenuity, creativity, and the "homework" time it takes to make jigs and templates than I do on ones ability to swipe a credit card.

Many of the tools that make me the most money don't cost very much at all. 6"and 12" bar clamps frequently replace a helper. Moving dollies and carts that I have either bought or made allow me to get tools onto a job or move heavy windows, doors, cabinets, counter tops, or multiple sheets of plywood or drywall around a job by myself with minimal effort. Dedicating inexpensive routers to tasks or a jigsaw to a Coping Foot cuts down on change over time. I can go on but I think I've made my point.

All of this is just opinion. Anyone can buy whatever tool they want and think whatever they want about my opinions. If my opinions qualify me as a "hater" then it is what it is.

Justin

[chuckwoodchuck]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

Woodchuck- it's kind of like why someone would buy a porsche when a subaru wrx is just as fast. For me, I bought the TS55 when it was the only option, so it was an easy choice. Now that I have it, the Germans have my loyalty.

I agree with you to a degree jobercian. You have options with power tools just as you do with vehicles. I feel you don't always have to pay more for the same performance or quality.

I can't even find a store that stocks Makita so that I could handle one. Their promo video for the Makita saw doesn't even mention dust colllection OR show it being used. That is some nice attention to detail, eh?

You found a Festool dealer, and they aren't on every corner by any means. You typically have to search for Festool products in my area. Check out Paul B Hardware in Lititz they have some cool tools, as they have most brands.

[ericbuggeln]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

Justin, I would not qualify you as a hater. There are millions of good jigs available on the market (ex. Woodpeckers/Incra) that are about what I make an hour. I could spend time coming up with a concept, go to the store if i don't have everything in the shop to make it, fabricate it and test it out on some scrap to see if it works, or i could just swipe the credit card as you say. If the same jig is $50 at Woodpeckers, I would rather just buy one that engineers, designers, professional woodworking consultants and commercial machinery made. Extruded aluminum is much straighter then any piece of wood I can get from my mill. If i took all the time and gas explained above I would be in to the jig for much more then $50. So if I buy the jig, I am financially ahead and I had time to spend with my family, which is more important. Does this make me a worse carpenter? Does it make me smarter then you? I think not to both, it just means that I value my time and work at least 50 hrs a week, so its nice to do things like building a nicer router table, like I did today. I have many shop made jigs, but if I see something on the market that is easily purchased then why bother? Call me new school, too young to understand, whatever you want, but all the young craftsman I know sweat every new offering that Woodpeckers or Festool comes out with. There is nothing wrong with using old school craftsman techniques with new school tools. I believe that using Festool, Incra, and Woodpeckers tools have immensely helped me in my young career as well as this forum, other forums, books, Gary Katz, practice, and real life experience, thanks Eric

[vwdave]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

Which saw would I buy?? If I'm using it for its intended purpose to cut wood, I would probably get the makita and save some bucks. My brother-in-law has the makita saw and it's really nice, plus it comes in a systainer. He spent quite a bit less then I did on my ts55 plus got an additional rail for free. The makita has some great features, plenty of power and works well.

If you have a lot of Festool tools or plan on buying more then I would look towards the ts55. One of the things I like about festool's is how they all work together. That rail can be used for my routers and the saw can be hooked up to my dust extractor.

The results you get fall mainly on the user, sure track saws make it easier and faster but for many years a straight edge and a circular saw did an amazing job. A true craftsman doesn't need the best tools just his hands and a brain and you could accomplish amazing results (even with harbor freight tools).

Dave

[ycf dino]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

If I were looking at two carpenters for one position and the first showed up in a truck full of Systainers full of Festool tools and the second showed up with a truck full of professional grade tools with a bunch of homemade jigs and shoot boards to maximize what he had, guess which one I would hire. The second one. Both may be excellent craftsmen and take great pride in their work, but I place a higher value on ingenuity, creativity, and the "homework" time it takes to make jigs and templates than I do on ones ability to swipe a credit card.

Justin

Justin,
That reminds me of Tony.
An old union carpenter that work with my crew in few jobs in NY.
450 Park Ave. 1370 Ave of Americas...etc.
To work there you must be pre-qualified from the tenant /union/ landloard.
The building manager has to see at least two finished jobs and talk to your customers.

he outperform me and my crew ( one of the best in Manhattan )
with few smart home-made jigs.
While we spend so much time and getting so many parking tickets to load and unload all our expensive tools...
( paid the door man extra for the elevator)...
He was finishing one office after the other...better, faster and easier than three of us.
That makes you think twice about tools.

here is the story.

http://www.core77.com/blog/featured_...stem_10776.asp



half way down you see Tony's influance on me.

talking about tools?
Now, that is a tool to get thr job done...nice website

http://www.core77.com/blog/object_cu...wice_22004.asp

tx.

[ericbuggeln]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

If you can afford and have access to the best tools and you dont use them, its like if when Man discovered fire and some of the group said "Nah, we're not doing that" Its called progression. My best jigs are half homemade and half after market parts. Real craftsman used to make there own tools, how many of you are still holding on to that tradition?, Eric

[philthegreek]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

Eric,
Every new crown profile I use gets a cutting jig for my miter saws. It takes about 15 minutes and I write the profile number on it and leave a scrap taped in it when I'm done for a visual cue.
When I was a technician, certain tools (such as slide hammers and pullers) were bought with a matching tap and die. Any accessories for the I custom made. When you need a tool and you don't have the time to "run out and get it" then that is where the knowledge of making your own comes in to play.
If you need to get a job done and it is 7:00pm, when all but the big boxes are closed, what do you do? Wait till morning or make what you need and finish the job?
I needed to create some reeded captured columns for a custom mantle I was working on. it took me about 1 1/2 hours to figure what I needed to make and make the router jig. I met the deadline, was forced to use my noggin and gained a scrap I could pass on to another.
Now-a-days there are plenty of pickin's out there, you're right, but the real test is when you need it and can't get it.
Personally, I like to see the jigs guys in this business create. you get a sense of their point of view just in how they solved the problem at hand. I have also seen "jigs" that were too darned expensive, sold by slick willy's, and don't have the quality to last more than 2 jobs. (that guy with the crown jig at JLCLive comes to mind).

Phil

[ycf dino]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

If you can afford and have access to the best tools and you dont use them, its like if when Man discovered fire and some of the group said "Nah, we're not doing that" Its called progression. My best jigs are half homemade and half after market parts. Real craftsman used to make there own tools, how many of you are still holding on to that tradition?, Eric

Eric, best tool for what?
To make cabinets with connected or long tracks
and factory build story sticks is simply SLOW, WASTED MONEY and TIME.
take it from someone who makes and sells all the above.

The user needs to think about the task at hand and come up with smart solutions. I can build a home-made jig in few minutes and outperform all
tools. Including the one's that I make.

Why not think of the best way to rip large panels and the best way to cross cut the same strips?

Tablesaw? Out. It was invented after the panels.
Tracksaws? Out. never designed to build cab's.

well, we can use track saws with the help of story sticks?
Like repeaters/parallel guides?
where do they come from? From the quest of a better way. not a better tool.
I use adjustable story sticks from drywall squares 25 years ago.
slidable connected to a strip of panel and you have the latest in tracksaws for much less. or, you can invest $1.000.00 for ready tools and waste your time
to make them work for you...
Look at all videos and the editing done to hide all the problems.

Now we can think of a better way to cross cut?
A piece of wood or aluminum suspended on a table ( at the right height)
and 2 tracks for your stops. I use to rout the table top and use wooden stops... ( shoe molding) before making ready tools from extrusions.

Now we offer ellegant-long lasting solutions ( thanks to modern materials)
but they can't compete with the tool of all tools. simplicity.

a simple idea/homemade jig for the job at hand.
If we really think that ready tools is the answer...we have to buy a 45 feet trailer to haul them from site to site...

Back to Tony?
Now you see why he called me stupid?
I was wasting more energy and time to haul and set my tools
instead getting the job done with a simple and small jig.

I'm not against tools.
I'm against the idea of looking at them as a better way.

We make the tools and we can't allow them to dictate
the way we think and work.
The best way is yet to be found.

[kreg McMahon]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

dino, Nice article and very interesting

have to get out the door and rock and roll will get back later with some chatter

[ericbuggeln]

Re: Makita vs. Festool

Dino, i choose whatever option is gonna make my work better and more fun to do, whether it is my idea, someone else's, a store bought idea, or a combination of all three, which is usually the best. My clients arent gonna award me for coming up with it entirely on my own and they are all blown away with what I bring on site and with my work. Thats all i need to make a good living. There are very few original ideas out there, most came from inspiration from somewhere else. Take the Domiplate, by Seneca Woodworking. Amazing and gives me accuracy I never got with the stock version, you guys should check it out, its an hours worth of pay. Its really just a way better version of the stock fence that comes with it. Original idea? Maybe, looks pretty similar to me, but game changing IMO, its Festool related so guys here wont give it a chance, but you should, Eric