Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

[J.Buesking]

Little debate going today on site.

Let's say you are attaching a 16g piece of 2x2 angle to a brick veneer wall. Do you put the tapcons into the mortar or actual brick.

[parkwest]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

What is it for? How much load will it be carrying?

[tjbnwi]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

How brittle/hard is the brick?

I have had brick strip the threads off TapCons.

So, it depends on the situation/product.

Tom

[charles]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

I think I asked a similar question maybe 2 years ago. I ended up going thru the mortar joints to the structure behind the brick veneer, and it has held well so far, but not much load to challenge it.

[Happy Home]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

Tom - you cheated and read the instructions. It - depends / either -or is the answer.

[Norm Yeager]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

I'm not sure that it matters or you can be sure what is right. As Tom's experienced I've also had Tapcon threads strip in brick . Another consideration is if the brick is cored or not- most are. Then the Tapcon may be hitting air after the first inch or less, when the drill bit breaks out the wall of the brick similar to a BB's effect on the i/s surface of a pane of glass.
If the Tapcon goes into a mortar joint it's pull out strength will depend on the compressive PSI of the mortar and the depth of the mortar joint in combination with the length & diameter of the Tapcon. I wouldn't depend on the withdrawl strength of a Tapcon in brick or a mortar joint for many applications. In my experience there are few situations where anything structural should be attached to a brick veneer, although it happens quite often. Fastening flashing, signage etc. are safer applications.

[Don_in_Idaho]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

Brick veneer cracks easily so I would put it in the joint unless replacing a cracked brick isn't a concern.

[Top Notch]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

I would avoid the brick personally. You could always repoint a mortar joint.

[joseph]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

tapcons work sometimes but because it is only sometimes i have an assortment of those plastic and led inserts .drill the hole out bigger and tap insert in . I have heard it said the best place was the mortor but right off that seems dumb . I have seen a lot more failed mortor joints then bricks .

[Anders]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

For tapcons the mortar joints are best for these reasons:
The brick can be brittle as stated above and you could crack it, if not during installation, perhaps later in life. The mortar should be solid from the face of the brick to the back, but, depending on your brick that may not be the case with the bricks, thus you get less pull out strength. Lastly, the tapcons are engineered to be installed and hold in a cementitious material, i.e. concrete, CMU, or in this case mortar, so you'll have a better overall hold and life, and they will be easier to install, as someone else mentioned too.
Hope this helps, and who won the debate?
Good luck,
Anders

[popawheelie]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

I've found the bricke to be more consistant than the mortar.
But each situation is different. I try a few and see how it is going before comitting.

[philthegreek]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

I just put TapCons into a granite foundation, they did not strip their threads. Are you guys using the correct drill bit size? I've had them strip in concrete when I hit a quartz aggregate stone, but never in a brick. Maybe I just have brick luck.

Phil

[tjbnwi]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

I just put TapCons into a granite foundation, they did not strip their threads. Are you guys using the correct drill bit size? I've had them strip in concrete when I hit a quartz aggregate stone, but never in a brick. Maybe I just have brick luck.

Phil

Proper sized drill bit. Fired brick.

Tom

[dave_k]

Re: Simple Connecting to Masonry Question

I don't think a tapcon is the best fastener for that application. My first question would be "What's the load going to be on the angle iron?" I'd probably go with a small diameter sleeve anchor drilled into mortar joint or a Rawl fiber plug if it was carrying a superficial load. A chemical anchor may also work in some cases. like others have said it depends on the brick and the quality of the mortar