Are you a subscriber but don’t have an online account?

Register for full online access.

 
 
 
 
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: XRF scope

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    SF Bay Area (East Bay)
    Posts
    2,462

    Default XRF scope

    I'm meeting tomorrow with a HO who has hired an XRF tester. The HO has signed on for a "75 component" testing, rather than the more expensive, comprehensive whole house testing. There are multiple (but discrete) demo areas.

    My question is how do testers define "components". Is each separate sash a component? Each piece of casing? Or is it "Window 1: Sashes, Window 1: Casing", etc. etc. If it's every individual element (i.e. "Window 1: Upper Sash, Window 1: Lower Sash, Window 1: Top casing (exterior), Window 1: left side casing (exterior) etc. etc.

    Is there any standard definition of "components" for testers?

    I'll find out tomorrow, curious if any of you have any ideas ahead of the meeting.

    kevin

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    531

    Default Re: XRF scope

    Kevin, it is different for a certified renovator than it is a lead inspector.

    A lead inspector can test one sash in each room as long as similar to other sashes in the room. A certified renovator has to test each and every sash that will be disturbed.

    From my understanding, the window sash is considered an integrated whole (RRP) and the window frame (jambs, casings, sill ...) is another integrated whole. So, if there are 5 windows in a room ...

    the certified renovator would need to check one spot on each integrated whole. This would be 2 spots on each window interior and do this on each window in the room. Or in other words, 10 spots. A lead inspector would test 1 sash and 1 window frame for a total of 2 spots.

    RRP definition of component ...

    Component or building component means specific design or structural elements or fixtures of a building or residential dwelling that are distinguished from each other by form, function, and location. These include, but are not limited to, interior components such as: Ceilings, crown molding, walls, chair rails, doors, door trim, floors, fireplaces, radiators and other heating units, shelves, shelf supports, stair treads, stair risers, stair stringers, newel posts, railing caps, balustrades, windows and trim (including sashes, window heads, jambs, sills or stools and troughs), built in cabinets, columns, beams, bathroom vanities, counter tops, and air conditioners; and exterior components such as: Painted roofing, chimneys, flashing, gutters and downspouts, ceilings, soffits, fascias, rake boards, cornerboards, bulkheads, doors and door trim, fences, floors, joists, lattice work, railings and railing caps, siding, handrails, stair risers and treads, stair stringers, columns, balustrades, windowsills or stools and troughs, casings, sashes and wells, and air conditioners.
    Dean

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    SF Bay Area (East Bay)
    Posts
    2,462

    Default Re: XRF scope

    Thanks, Dean.

    Out here in CA we're not allowed to do testing ourselves simply as certified RRP renovators anyway.

    Sounds like the tester should be able to cover our scope of work with 75 components, by your description.

    kevin

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    531

    Default Re: XRF scope

    More conservatives (on the actual law) feel that the certified renovator should test on the sash, jamb, sill, trough and casing ... on each window.
    Dean

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    531

    Default Re: XRF scope

    75 should get it. Best thing is if you are there to show him exactly what will be disturbed.
    Dean

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    SF Bay Area (East Bay)
    Posts
    2,462

    Default Re: XRF scope

    Quote Originally Posted by Dean CRCNA View Post
    More conservatives (on the actual law) feel that the certified renovator should test on the sash, jamb, sill, trough and casing ... on each window.
    That's how I was looking at it, and I began to question whether 75 "components" would be enough to get all the way around the building. I mean, if the reading comes up negative on the sash, I'd still want to read the casing, and if that came up negative, I'd still want the sill, etc. etc. And then there's interior... Could easily test 6-10 parts per window. The wall demo seems a little more straightforward- wall surface, baseboard, casings, done.

    kevin

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Friday Harbor, San Juan Island, Washington
    Posts
    13,029

    Default Re: XRF scope

    Wow, it's great for you that this is going to be done. Will you have someone abate the lead parts (if any) and then just go at it like a regular remodel? What's the testing going to cost?
    Bailer Hill Construction, Inc. - Friday Harbor, WA
    Website - Facebook

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    SF Bay Area (East Bay)
    Posts
    2,462

    Default Re: XRF scope

    The 75 component test is $400. For $600 you get the whole house and (I believe) testing of soil adjacent to the house.

    I'm planning on doing RRP protocol myself where necessary as part of the retrofit and remodel work. I suppose I might change my mind about that if the test turns up a ton of LBP, (especially interior walls) but I'm imagining it being limited to some windows and siding. We're not blowing out the whole house, but we are touching probably ten different spots or so.

    kevin

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    SF Bay Area (East Bay)
    Posts
    2,462

    Default Re: XRF scope

    XRF guy came out this morning. Nice guy. Spent at least an 1 1/2 hours, maybe almost 2.

    Preliminary results showed not much LBP in the house. (House has been sequentially remodeled, the original parts are probably 80-90 yr. old.) All tested wall and ceiling surfaces came back negative.

    LBP was present in one formerly exterior window that will be removed from a laundry room wall, otherwise all the project areas were clean. The HO had other spots tested, LBP was found in the original kitchen paint behind the cabinets, the trim at the garage door, and at two original exterior windows.

    The HO also had a relatively new soldered joint checked- it came back at something like 7200 ppm. I don't know what the allowable percentage of lead in "lead-free" solder is. I asked the tester to scan a brass shut-off valve on the same pipe, it came back at 62,500 ppm, or 6.25%. Is 8% lead content still the rule for potable water fittings?

    Anyway, it was well worth the money, both in terms of simplifying the work but also for the client's peace of mind (they have two kids).

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Suburbia (Washington, DC area)
    Posts
    1,938

    Default Re: XRF scope

    I don't know much about XRFs, but I have read that they need to be calibrated for the material they're looking at so a typical paint-type XRF will get funny readings on other materials (such as pipes or valves).
    I think brass was allowed to have up to 8% lead until California and Vermont changed their minds about that and the federal government changed too. But a lot of brass is recycled so who really knows.
    This is a bit old but goes into it a bit: http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.ht...47&segmentID=5

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    SF Bay Area (East Bay)
    Posts
    2,462

    Default Re: XRF scope

    Quote Originally Posted by ThingOfBeauty View Post
    I don't know much about XRFs, but I have read that they need to be calibrated for the material they're looking at so a typical paint-type XRF will get funny readings on other materials (such as pipes or valves).
    I think brass was allowed to have up to 8% lead until California and Vermont changed their minds about that and the federal government changed too. But a lot of brass is recycled so who really knows.
    This is a bit old but goes into it a bit: http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.ht...47&segmentID=5
    You're right- the tech waited until we were all done shooting paint before he tested the pipe. He mentioned that it had to be tested with a different setting on the gun.

    k

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts