sill plates overhanging foundation

[foundation_question]

I have a question about sill plates overhanging the foundation for a new home construction. I am in the process of building a new home with a second general contractor. The home is being built from a custom set of prints that were drawn up by an architect that I hired. The first general contractor screwed up the foundation and first floor decking and we had to fire him for the terrible quality of his work product. Before the Winter set in, we covered up the foundation with OSB and plastic to protect it from the elements and I hired a new general contractor.

The new general pulled off the first floor decking this week and has noticed some issues with the foundation. We knew last year that there were some issues, but not how bad it was until today. The architect and general contractor have indicated that structurally the foundation is fine especially since we put a LOT of rebar in it. The foundation is 9'6" high and 10" thick and I think it has 4 rows of horizontal rebar as well as verticals.

The problem we have run into is that the new framer, who seems much better, is trying to square out the home on top of the foundation and in many places of the home, the sill plates overhang the foundation wall. The general contractor and framer are saying its not pleasant but it something they can manage. I told them that at this point, I am so fed up with the first builder that I would be OK with tearing out the foundation, compacting with engineered fill, and starting all over. They don't think it's necessary, but I wanted to get some reassurance on this before I put out a lot to frame and build out the house, only to find out later this will be a big issue.

I have attached several pictures that show where the foundation is crooked and what needed to be done to lay out the sill plates in order to be square.

Thanks for any help,

Tim

[parkwest]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

Curious: What criteria did you use to select your builder(s)?

[miterme]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

Pretty sure someone is going to bust you for not being a pro....but....
thats not more than an 1 1/2" out off the stem wall there on the second wall. Just bring it in a bit and split the difference to stay square. Whats the worst wall out? Depending on the siding, just cup down the face of the stem wall.

Any competent GC can correct stuff like that. How come there is no anchors, except the one in the first pic?

[dlhunter]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

If your GC can't figure it out get a new one.
That said I agree with miterme. It depends on how far the plates are overhanging and if you can just pull them in some to let the foundation stick out past the plates or split the difference. It also depends on what type of siding material is being used.
The Architect, framer, GC should be able to figure it out in a 20 minute discussion. If not fire them all.

[BeachBoy]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

I would be inclined to follow the foundation and live with a slightly out of square house unless it would cause some significant problem. Your framer might not be very happy about doing that as there can be unanticipated consequences. Nobody says houses have to be square, it just makes it easier to build. Be sure your joist system includes joists that can be trimmed in the field.

Suggest you check the existing construction against the structural engineering plans. If anchors are missing, what else is missing or wrong?

[dlhunter]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

I wouldn't recommend ever building a house out of square. You are going to give every finish guy who follows you headaches. Not to mention making it harder on yourself to frame.

[Mlandry]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

If it bothers you enough and you can afford to tear it out then do it. Otherwise it looks like you can work with whats there.

[Lavrans]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

Your engineer is the best one to ask if you want an actionable opinion.

I agree with your GC that it's not a problem. Most of the plate is supported, more than is necessary for structural concerns (making some assumptions about height here.... I'm assuming you're going 2, maybe 3 stories in places). Many houses in the past were built on 2x4 plates that give you less bearing than you have there...

So long as your hold-downs and point loads are all adequately supported you should be fine.

I agree with building it square, also. It's not just the finish & trim carpenters, but what happens when you get to the roof, what the roof looks like, etc., etc.

[Top Notch]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

Doesnt look like a problem to me either.
If you were planning on a 2x4 wall change to a 2x6 for more bearing.

[David Meiland]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

Not a problem. Start rolling joists. Don't build the house out of square unless you want the concrete guy's mistake to hurt everyone else who follows.

[Randy Bush]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

Have worked with stuff like this before . I would keep it square as you can. I would be more concerded about the plates not hanging over the foundation. for the siding. But that can be fixed too. with a concrete saw and cutting it back before starting to frame. Hope it all works out for you.

[Mark Parlee]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

I agree, build it square

When using I joists the rim is the bearing member and the plates overhanging the foundation are in a shear line to some extent. If this were an issue then there is a detail to add squash blocks at each I and at any point loads.

[David Meiland]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

May need more than one layer of rim...

[DWBuilder]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

Tearing it out would be a waste of resources, even if you can afford it.

Like others said, build it square. Out of square would make you cut each floor joist a different length, each perimeter piece of floor sheathing would be tapered, calculating rafter layouts would be more work, calculating hips and valleys would be harder, roof sheathing would be tapered like your floor sheathing, your roof planes would be funky. If a truss roof, you might not be able to adjust properly to get the required bearing or keep a truss with a tall heel from sticking out past the wall plane. Out of square will affect flooring, trim, setting cabinets, countertops--everything down the line. Like David says it penalizes EVERYONE down the line. It makes the whole job exponentially more complicated. No house is framed perfect, but starting out with a systematic error of a couple of inches adds more work and money to every stage down the line.

If there is sufficient bearing (sounds like architect OK'd it) the only penalty to the overhang is it irritating you every time you walk by it. Spend your resources on solutions to make it look palatable to you. Fir out foundation? Stucco? etc?

Depending on the siding, you may be able to hold the sill plate back in places to minimize the overhang in others, but be careful that it can be properly flashed so you don't create a shelf for water to enter the building.

I would also be careful cutting or grinding the concrete, the rebar needs to be covered in concrete and you don't know what the cover is now.

Ditto what others said about anchor bolts--where they at??? I assume the architect has a plan for epoxied bolts or wedge anchors etc.?

I would definitely (and I think your GC would) want the architect to modify and stamp the plans to reflect the deviations. That way there isn't finger pointing as to who said what if there was ever a problem.

[Mark Parlee]

Re: sill plates overhanging foundation

The pictures seem too small to see the anchors but these look like they could be them.

The second plate has a different method of attachment.