Frank Lloyd Wright how did he do those canlilevers

[Albion]

Howdy thumbing threw "Frank Lloyd Wright a Visual Encyclopedia" i was aw struck. Ross extended seemingly without support. The front porch floats on the George C Stewart house . Mr wrights only example of Prairie Architecture in CA. Anyone been to see it?

Or The Stanley Rosenbuam House's front ? soaring flat roof... Oh my my.

[Ottoman]

Probably typical Architect. Sent it out for ten bids with the details half completed and had the lowest bidder figure it out. In full disclosure I might be a bit cynical today as I'm stuck working prices on the weekend. One down six to go.

[Ted S.]

He did a lot with reinforced concrete, and if you consider what he did, and how much we knew about reinforced concrete at the time he built that stuff, you'd realize that little guy had balls.

[Mark Parlee]

He did do a lot of cool design.
The deep overhang saved him on a lot of his brick details or lack thereof.

[Martin Holladay]

Albion,
Q. "How did Frank Lloyd Wright do those cantilevers?"

A. Badly. Very badly. Here's an article on the Fallingwater repairs: "The living room terrace had deflected as much as 7 inches and, without intervention, someday would fall into Bear Run."
http://www.post-gazette.com/lifestyl...ry1208fnp3.asp

[BeachBoy]

The cantilevers lasted for 60 years before the structure 'needed repairs', you could argue that was a reasonable expected life for the house. It probably would have lasted quite a while longer before it actually collapsed. Most houses need significant work, often including structural repairs, around the 50 year mark.

So I think it is a little disingenuous to claim that Wright structures were poorly designed structurally. I like to think they were appropriate for the purpose intended at the time.

Blaming Wright is a little like claiming that Allen, Dick, and I (... etal.) build badly because we use 2x materials in areas where we know there are termites.

[Albion]

Howdy Mr Holladay interesting article. But Architects rely on Enginers? So why are you blaming Him? Was this not pushing the envelope of known in 1936 ? Design & vision ahead of his time. Just think what he might of been able to create with our improved building knowledge. I had read this home was put to paper just a couple hours before the client arrived to pick up the plans in that article, Mr Wright as a chronic procrastinator.

The homes outcrops, i referenced, do not appear to be made of reinforced concrete. Likely Metal Beams?

[Martin Holladay]

A great many of Frank Lloyd Wright's houses were plagued by structural problems and leaky flat roofs. He's the architect, and I blame him.

Sorry, but those are the facts.

[Lavrans]

Agree with Martin. To some extent.

Wright was an aesthetic architect more than a structural one- he did come up with some great ideas and built some beautiful houses, and even had some good structural thoughts, but wasn't as good at pulling off the building as he was the designing; his homes are plagued with design problems. I would hasten to say that is part of the risk of being at the leading edge.

He would do better today, as do many architects now do, because we do have better knowledge, materials, and manufacturing systems in place to water and weatherproof designs that really aren't suited for being in weather. And also he would benefit from the current system where the responsibility for all of that is (in residential) on the builder, not the architect.

[tjbnwi]

From what I have seen/heard/read, Frank Lloyd Wright would not use an engineer, or listen to anyone else. His way or the highway.

One off the programs I saw on Falling Water stated that the builder knew that the rebar was deficient, and told FLW so. He didn't heed the advice and it contributed to the early demise of the structure.

Tom

[mike maines]

Wright invented the whole idea of cantilevered reinforced concrete. Nobody had done it before. It did not hold up well over time, nor did many of his details. He was a pretty interesting guy, three completely different careers over his long life, but he was quite a jerk. I've been to Fallingwater and many of his Chicago houses; they are all interesting, especially when you consider that he was inventing a lot of it as he went along.

[Ted S.]

Guys,

If you want to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs.

[ThingOfBeauty]

There's a fantastic article about the structural problems & repairs at Fallingwater that was published in Scientific American in September 2000. I found a copy here.
It's a great read and a good article--I still remember how excited I was to read it, and the illustrations of the problems & solution are very well done--I brought it to work to show the guys.
Per the article (written by a structural engineer who supervised the restoration work), the main cantilevers were just at the edge of their strength, and the master terrace above the main cantilever was underdesigned, in fact it had failed and was being held up by the steel window frames.
Wright had an engineer in his office who supposedly forgot to calculate for some of the loading. The concrete company put in extra steel which helped, but wasn't enough to stop the slow drooping of the main cantilevers. The heavy steel window frames were also added on site.
It would seem clear that the engineer and architect didn't get this one right, and were saved for a long time by site modifications.
More here, here, and here.

[dgbldr]

I agree FLW was quite deficient. Personal experience.

A long time ago I visited his compound at Taliesin. It so happened that by accident I was there while major restoration was going on. After "touring" some appalling sights, I ran into the construction super and spent some time talking with him. The place was literally rotting and falling apart. The super pointed out to me many truly gross construction "details". Lack of sealing, flashing, you name it. Really basic stuff. His take was that if it didn't serve an aesthetic purpose, it wasn't done. I tend to agree.

He was, however, a great artist. Architect, not so much.

[Ted S.]

I never really liked FLW anyhow.

He ripped off all of Uncle Louie's designs and took credit for it, slept with all of his clients wives, and never listened to anyone.

Yeah, that's right, I'm jealous as I work on a report at 1:54am.