Behr paints

[m beezo]

I do not know how many of you use Behr paint or even do painting projects but wanted to give you this heads up. I have a customer who likes the Behr paint and recenlty tried out the Ultra primer and paint in one. I did not do the painting but was there to see the results and have to say was pleasantly surprised. I may consider trying it out on a project sometime to see if I get similiar results.
But the real thing I wanted to tell you is that Behr has 2 products that include the word priming on their paint. The one he used was the Premium Ultra Paint and Primer in one. They also have one that is labled self priming paint. Different labels and I am told different types of results. I was told that neither one will totally cover water stains unless they are very small or light. And I was going to read the label but the homeowner was pretty messy with the paint and smeared it all over the label. Thought that when I looked at it a year ago it still had what I would call as a disclamer that the ultra may still need 2 coats for complete coverage. Will try to get by the store and see if I can get more information so I can verify what I believe to be true. Just a heads up if you guys send someone to get some paint for you or your customer wants to go and pick it out so they can select a color.

[kreg McMahon]

Re: Behr paints

most behr paints take 2 coats even the light colors beiges etc. where sherwin williams super paint 80 % of time is one coat except darker colors.

i have tried the the paint you are talking about and its not bad but still prefer super paint and even though its 38-43 a gallon and only one coat is less expensive then 2 coats of behr, time and material.

but if it does the job great. let us know what you find out.

for water leaks I use zinger OIL base primer to seal yellow stain then wait the 24 hours then paint and no leak through.

[VTNorm]

Re: Behr paints

I haven't used Behr in a long time so my experience is dated but it feels and looks watery to me. I use SW almost exclusively, some of their paints are primerless and I've had good luck with them. I can call my local SW and give them my paint order and it's mixed and invoiced when I get there; no big box shuffle to deal with.

Paint is one of those items that I don't buy based on price, it's such a small portion of the overall project cost that I can buy the best paint and it's still peanuts in the big picture. And the painted finish is what the customer is going to see every day.

-Norm

[squarelev]

Re: Behr paints

Watch out on these "premium" paint-and-primer-in-one products that you get the product for either wood or for steel. I had a clerk send me out the door (Sherman Williams store) 2 or 3 years ago with the wrong one. I'd told the clerk it was for a steel garage door, but then, because I'm a carpenter, not a painter, I relied on the clerk and did not double check. --It did not stick very well.

Maybe served me right buying paint when I'm no painter.

Ward

[tomthetoolman40]

Re: Behr paints

I used the Behr primer/paint on a steel post that was pre-primed from the fabricator. The next day there were rust spots on it. Haven't used it since.

Think about it though. Primer is cheaper than paint. One coat primer and one coat paint is cheaper than two coats of paint with the primer in it.

[magna111]

Re: Behr paints

But is 1 coat of primer and 2 coats of paint cheaper than 2 coats of paint with primer in it? I have had success with the primer paints, one coat is not enough for me, but I may just be too picky.

[topcoatfinishes]

Re: Behr paints

Most painters who came up through the ranks in oil have been doing split coats forever as an intermediate coat in 4 coat systems particularly. Sooner or later someone had to put it in a can. Behr wasnt the first to do it, just the first to put enough marketing horsepower behind it to get it up in the air.

The difference is, literally, they put it on the front of the can instead of the back. Hats off to Behr for that. Thats about it.

Full prime coats are still best. Put some magic in a can on a drywall patch sometime and you will see the concept clearly.

[m beezo]

Re: Behr paints

Full prime coats are still best. Put some magic in a can on a drywall patch sometime and you will see the concept clearly.

Call me old school but I thought that primer was really more than something you could decide to use or not use. I was taught that primer was something to seal the surface and help even out the absorption rate so you ended up with a good finish. And that the primer was "rough" or "toothed" to help the next coat of paint adhere. That is what has me confused about this primer and paint in one. I figured that the finish will be rough feeling but it does not seem too bad.

Other point for me is that I almost always look for a 2 coat job as a minimum. Just seems to give a better finish to me.

[topcoatfinishes]

Re: Behr paints

mb

You're pre-existing notions are correct, and they are not outdated.

Part of the deal is that there has just been so much technological advancement from a chemistry standpoint in the past ten years in waterborne paint technologies.

For instance, a lower end waterborne these days is a way better experience than a premium was 15 years ago. Sometimes the lower to mid grades today are the most user friendly because they are designed for success in the mass market, by homeowners.

The ultra premiums, Aura and Duration, which in some markets can hit $60/gal can be very frustrating to non-pro painters, and can end in disaster on the wall.

I have visited the major manufacturer R&D facilities and tested their new formulations for them in the presence of the chemists who formulate them. Its really hard for one can of paint to be competent across many substrates. But in general, the concept is that if they can get decent holdout (seal characteristics and holdout) and adhesion on raw substrates, it doesnt matter what is in the can or what the can says on it.

You can use alot of paints on raw wood or drywall, It will work. However, there are risks.

I have had architect specs call for 2 coats of Aura (Ben Moores self priming ultra premium), on drywall. Its the most expensive can of paint they make. It is not satisfactory to a high professional standard in two coats. For condo grade or tract houses, its better than normal. The problem with that gamble in higher quality work is that if you end up needing a 3rd coat for the appearance of uniform penetration and seal, then you have spent more money for a compromised result because the third coat of paint (in this and many cases) costs significantly more than an initial sprayed prime coat. That is one of the fundamental flaws in that system. If you use self priming paint, and you have multiple colors, then spraying the initial prime coat is no longer the efficient and cost effective option that it historically was.

Strange days indeed. I spend many of my days discussing this type of cost v performance analysis with builders, architects and designers who want the best new thing. When it backfires and costs a customer more money to get the look they want, its unfortunate. I recommend against it every time. It's just not a risk worth taking, especially when, as I noted in a previous post, if you put self priming paint on drywall mud, the adhesion is poor. Its good on the paper, not so much on the mud. Usually fails the fingernail test and sometimes will roll right off the wall on subsequent coats. Not a chance I am taking professionally. I will definitely use these paints over primer, where they can be finicky but produce dynamite results in terms of look, feel and depth of color. The depth of color is a result of actual waterborne tint systems instead of the old glycol we all grew up on.

[charles]

Re: Behr paints

Scott,

I've used top of the line Ben Moore exterior latex but still get too many brush marks when I brush and sort of an orange peel texture when I roll. Have you seen any exterior or interior waterborne semi-gloss paints that level as well as oil used to?

[topcoatfinishes]

Re: Behr paints

Scott,

I've used top of the line Ben Moore exterior latex but still get too many brush marks when I brush and sort of an orange peel texture when I roll. Have you seen any exterior or interior waterborne semi-gloss paints that level as well as oil used to?

If all the stars align, and the paint gods are with you that day, you can get close to oil leveling.

By that I mean working in the shade, not too humid, slicked up with fluotrol and in a deep base. You can get it pretty buttery but its still kicking off at a faster rate than oil on its fastest day (opposite conditions), and that is what affects the final leveling.

On the bright side, the color retention is 1000 times better.

[charles]

Re: Behr paints

OK, good to see I'm not doing anything to cause the problem.

Are there any zero VOC flat interior wall paints that have impressed you? In particular, do you have any knowledge of American Pride or Mythic?

[topcoatfinishes]

Re: Behr paints

OK, good to see I'm not doing anything to cause the problem.

Are there any zero VOC flat interior wall paints that have impressed you? In particular, do you have any knowledge of American Pride or Mythic?

In 0 voc's we have used Mythic and Natura. Edge to Natura, by several car lengths.

There are published reviews of both on my blog, linked below. I you have trouble finding the reviews, let me know.

[charles]

Re: Behr paints

I found both of your articles in APC magazine. I could not discern why you so strongly prefer Natura to Mythic.

[topcoatfinishes]

Re: Behr paints

At that level of product, the difference has mostly to do with coverage, spreadability, and open time. They are both very good paints.

When I reviewed Mythic, Natura hadnt been launched yet.