Redi-Footing deck posts

[dgbldr]

Tom mentioned these in another thread so I got curious and looked at them. Seems like a workable device with some advantages. I do have some installation questions for any of you who actually use it.

1. The bottom flange sits in the hole on soil at frost depth (42" at my location). Bottom of the hole is not flat or level. Do you A. Throw some loose dirt in the hole, tamp it and call it good? B. Pour a little concrete in the bottom, put the flange/post in and plumb it before the concrete cures? or C. ?

2. How do you level the tops? Leave the pipes long, backfill, then use a laser to mark pipes and cut in place? You can't have pipe above grade, so you're basically cutting at grade?

3. The top brackets only have 2 screw holes, one on each side. That makes the post connection more like a pivot joint. Is that a problem?

Any gotchas I need to know before trying these?

[tjbnwi]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

#1- compacted sand or stone (same depth here)

#2- laser, cut 3" above grade, top covers the 3" of pipe. Pipe should not be exposed due to UV, if you need it exposed paint with UV resistant paint per manufactures instructions.

#3- never had a problem with the connection. I use 4x6 with haunches that the beams sit on. If it is a concern could you rotate every other yoke 90°? I have also installed the built up beam directly in the yoke.

I can't think of any gotya's.

Tom

[tjbnwi]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

You can see the yoke holding the stair rail post;

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3T...4/DSCN1072.JPG

Used them on my moms ramp;

https://picasaweb.google.com/tbadernwi/ADARamp

This is a deck/screened porch I assisted Chuck Kiser with, see picture #24. I think that was about 1/2 of them;

https://picasaweb.google.com/1039515.../CuthbertDeck#

Tom

[dgbldr]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

Thanks Tom. Is there a dandy tool for cutting the pipe in place clean and straight, or do you use a recip?

Also, how far apart are your redifootings? I will calculate the loads, but for a typical deck like your pictures (open deck, not porch), do they end up closer than 10ft apart along the beam?

[tjbnwi]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

I believe the max load for the footing is 8000 pounds. Soil dependent. As with any other footing the math determines the spacing.

After you auger the hole, prep the bottom of the hole, measure up to grade add 3" cut on miter saw. That way the pipes are properly embedded. Once they are set, I place the ledger on the wall, or establish top of ledger as need be. Set laser 1" below the top of the ledger, place post material in yoke and mark cut on miter saw, measure down beam height less 1". Cut haunches.

If I do have to cut a pipe, I mark it at 1 point with a laser, wrap a piece of paper around the pipe, you'll know when it's right. Mark at top edge of paper. Cut with a 4-1/2" grinder along the line. I use to have a clamp for a recip saw to cut exhaust pipes, can't find it. Always made a square cut with it.

Tom

[dgbldr]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

Sounds good. I have a trick for marking the pipe. Take a 4" pipe fitting, cut off everything but the mating ring. Now you have a ring that slides perfectly over the pipe, just slide it down to the mark and draw a pencil line all around.

What are haunches?

[tjbnwi]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

An FYI, to tamp the bottom of the hole, install a base on a pipe that will be about waist high when in the hole. Put some dirt/sand/stone in it for weight. Add the yoke, install a piece of built up 2x as a T handle. This set up got dubbed the RediTamp by Eric. Tamp away, it works very well.

Tom

[Greg Di]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

Sounds good. I have a trick for marking the pipe. Take a 4" pipe fitting, cut off everything but the mating ring. Now you have a ring that slides perfectly over the pipe, just slide it down to the mark and draw a pencil line all around.

What are haunches?

They also sell commercially available pipe cutting guides for this purpose. The ones we use are spung so they don't have to be slid onto the pipe. You can just pop them on and they stay on the pipe from spring pressure.

They are are pretty cheap...maybe $20 each or less.

I use them all the time for Techno Metal Post since we cut the piers to a precise height for the contractor.

Do those Redi Footings have an ICC approval? I would imagine they could be a tough sell to many building inspectors from what I've seen with introducing helical piles (which have been used for 100 years already) to new towns.

[tjbnwi]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

Greg,

The engineering certificate is printable from the Redi-Footing web site. I have yet to have an issue. The codes do allow for engineered items.

Wouldn't you just cut the pipe on the mark with a pipe cutter? Mine cut very square.

I will have to look into the marking devices you describe.
dg,

Haunches are a shoulder cut in the post to support the beam plies. I use a 4x6, on the 6" dimension, I cut 1-1/2" by beam depth less 1". This leaves a 2-1/2" tounge to bolt the beam plies to. I also use spacers to keep the plies parallel.

If you look through some of the framing pics in the last link in post #3 you will see the assembly. Photo #29 & #36 give you a pretty good view.

I recall marking the pipe as you describe, for some reason I can't kep track of the sleeve. Always have paper with me.

Tom

[dgbldr]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

Thanks Tom. Never heard of "haunches". We call them shoulder cuts.

Now that 'engineering certificate"...it's not a certificate of any kind, just a test report. Man, it's so poor it would't cut it with my 10yr-old, let alone the AHJ. I'd be surprised if they spent more than $50 on that "testing". Engineer must be older than Dick, was using a typewriter in 2003 :) Not that there's anything wrong with being old...

1. It doesn't identify the pipe, which Redi doesn't supply. IT'S THE PIPE THAT FAILED!!!! Doh. 4.5" OD can be any grade. Was it Sch40, Sch80 or what? ASTM? Anything?

2. Pipe failed in buckling. Doesn't say that, but clear from the load figures and common sense. Only measured up to 40" long. Buckling strength goes down rapidly as it gets longer. At our depth of 42"+, no data.

3. They give a strength of 3,900 psi, but don't say what is the bearing area. If you divide, you get that they used 7 sq. inches as bearing area. What the heck is that? The saddle at the top has more post bearing, doesn't it? 7 sq in. is less than half the footprint of a 4x4. I sure hope it has more bearing than that.

Oy, looks like I'm going to have to have these things tested. I'd be embarrassed to show an inspector that piece of paper.

[tjbnwi]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

On the home page of the Redi-Footing web site it states Schedule 40 (220 psi). That should be the pipe it is tested with.

I'll go read the report again, it has been awhile.

I just looked at the report, it shows a 40.25" footing haveing a compressive load of 25,500 pounds.

Tom

[DonMirabito]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

Hmmm... I am wondering about the footing size and the local soil bearing capacity. The base is only 9 3/4" in diameter. That doesn't translate well into a good footing in poorer soils. I kind of get this vision of the "piling" being driven into the ground from the weight of whatever its holding up. i.e. the "post" may not fail, but it will be driven into the ground.

Of course YMMV...

Don

[Greg Di]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

Not to steal anyone's thunder, but this "dependency on soil" is what makes concrete piers and anything else (like these plastic footings) very questionable.

I cannot tell you how many times we've installed piles in seemingly "good" soil that torque up at 3' and then lose all torque at 4'-5'. This means the soil that looks good when you dig it is fooling you because what's directly under it is junk. This means we are installing the helix at somewhere between 10-14 usually (and sometimes deeper). We keep going until there is no doubt about the soil quality.

You (we, I) have previously had no way of knowing this without doing soil testing which is not reasonable to do for most residential jobs. Helical piles eliminate the guesswork from foundation design. Numbers don't lie and the fact that all piles are load tested via percussion is something you just can't do with an old fashioned pier.

Again, not trying to steal the show here, just pointing out what many, if not most, contractors don't realize. If you've seen what I've seen and been called out to remediate the number of failed concrete footings I have, you'd NEVER dig a hole again. I have put hundreds of sonotubes in the ground and I lose sleep at night wondering just how good the dirt they are sitting on really is.

[Dutchman]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the new deck code outlines what diameter for what distance off ground, height, spacing, etc..

[dgbldr]

Re: Redi-Footing deck posts

Correct me if I'm wrong .

I would, but don't have it in front of me ;). As far as I know, there are new prescriptive requirements for ledger attachment and some other misc. stuff, don't recall anything about piers.