The Tablesaw issue is back again

[texastutt]

Dear Moderators I figured it was about tools, but if it belongs elsewhere this was done to inform not to inflame.

http://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/wo...medium=twitter

[colevalleytim]

To me, the greatest danger from Table saws is kick back not cutting your fingers. Do you guys agree?

Is there any industry data?

[kfc510]

Remember when I said SawStop was lying about their technology only adding $100 to the cost of a table saw?

(From the article's PTI blog post- I can't verify the $1000 figure):

"After years of promises, SawStop is only now getting ready to release its version of a portable bench top saw with a flesh sensing technology. However, based on pre-introduction publications in woodworking magazines, this $1,000 table saw is much more expensive than the compact, lightweight and direct drive units that consumers can purchase today (for) $600 for professional premium models."

And you can bet they've priced this unit at a rock-bottom (possibly below cost) level to sway the lawmakers.

And then there's the question of how much it weighs. Anyone seen a review?

kevin

[SteveC]

I would say, aside from the obvious dollar profit and cost aspect, the mandatory requirement would prevent you from doing something STUPID.
It would be akin to having step ladders made without steps above the "Do Not Stand On or Above This Step" warning.
I think the saying is "You can't fix stupid"

[Kent Brobeck]

It's disheartening to see Sawstop owned by an attorney. No surprise that he's trying to force it on consumers. I say let the consumer decide and allow both type of saws on the market. Would it be an issue to offer Dewalt or Bosch table saws with the option to upgrade to skin sensing technology? If they do Sawstop would need to offer the technology via a license agreement. Really, the government should stick to what it does well...nothing.

[Bob Kovacs]

I would say, aside from the obvious dollar profit and cost aspect, the mandatory requirement would prevent you from doing something STUPID.
It would be akin to having step ladders made without steps above the "Do Not Stand On or Above This Step" warning.
I think the saying is "You can't cure stupid"

Well, all they need to do then is put a sticker on the saw table that says "do not put hands, feet, or any other body part that you want to keep attached near the spinning blade"......

[glennwarner]

Dear Moderators I figured it was about tools, but if it belongs elsewhere this was done to inform not to inflame.]

These days to be informed, is to be inflamed. You could have filed this under "Stop the Insanity".
Another good idea polluted by the ruling class; working toward a world where nobody gets cut, nobody gets fat, nobody hates, nobody is hungry, nobody is poor and nobody thinks for themselves.

"And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins...." Kipling

[SteveC]

Well, all they need to do then is put a sticker on the saw table that says "do not put hands, feet, or any other body part that you want to keep attached near the spinning blade"......

"Oops I didn't see the sign"
I think the safest thing would be have the government make lumberyards provide us with lumber in incremental widths and thicknesses starting at 1/16" so a table saw would be rendered obsolete.

Next item, nail guns with wood sensors so they only shoot into wood.
That would prevent this...
http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_may2004/6_Nail_Head.htm

[glennwarner]

Here is what I sent to the CPSC:


I am a long time power tool user and have followed the Saw Stop technology since its introduction at the International Woodworking Fair in 2002. I oppose the regulations that you have proposed because I am convinced that they are being promulgated primarily by the inventor of a specific technology for the purposes of his own enrichment.

Consumers now have a choice of the safety devices and procedures that they employ. There has to be a point where personal responsibility is recognized as a major factor in the safe operation of machinery. The ability to stop a spinning blade is an attempt to take that responsibility out of the equation. Yet like most other more common safety elements already available this too can be overridden by the operator.

The proposed regulations may even stifle future safety innovations because they are so narrowly drawn.

Additionally, if you have not done so already, I would suggest that you request data from the manufacturer of the Saw Stop regarding the number of incidents where the device has been activated and the circumstances under which that has occurred.

Finally as a consumer I feel that the proposed regulation is being done to me versus for me, and sets a disturbing precedent.

[Hoover]

Here is what I sent to the CPSC:


I am a long time power tool user and have followed the Saw Stop technology since its introduction at the International Woodworking Fair in 2002. I oppose the regulations that you have proposed because I am convinced that they are being promulgated primarily by the inventor of a specific technology for the purposes of his own enrichment.

Consumers now have a choice of the safety devices and procedures that they employ. There has to be a point where personal responsibility is recognized as a major factor in the safe operation of machinery. The ability to stop a spinning blade is an attempt to take that responsibility out of the equation. Yet like most other more common safety elements already available this too can be overridden by the operator.

The proposed regulations may even stifle future safety innovations because they are so narrowly drawn.

Additionally, if you have not done so already, I would suggest that you request data from the manufacturer of the Saw Stop regarding the number of incidents where the device has been activated and the circumstances under which that has occurred.

Finally as a consumer I feel that the proposed regulation is being done to me versus for me, and sets a disturbing precedent.

Stated very clearly and I agree completely. Good post by Kent as well.

I've never met the Saw Stop inventor, Stephen Gass but I can't stand this pompous a$$. What he wants is gangster gov't. He doesn't want to compete in the capitalist marketplace, he wants the gov't to eliminate the competition (or make them use his tech and pay him) he doesn't seem to be beating right now.

We all know where these regulations will lead, if passed. Home owners and cheap hack carpenters are not going to pay $1,000 for a portable table saw. You'll see incident after incident where people try to rip 1x3's with a circular saw, screw a circular saw upside down to a sheet of plywood to fashion a homemade table saw, etc.

It's pathetic that we have FAR worse crazy regulations, lawsuits, etc. than Europe. This cannot be sold in the US but is fine in Europe and our bureaucrats are trying to ban a normal table saw. http://www.toolstop.co.uk/bosch-gtm1...legstand-p8352

When do we get personal freedom back in this country?

[Hoover]

Nearly 25% more injuries result from Chain saw use in the USA than from Table saws each year. And hundreds of people die from chain saw accidents each year. How many people die from a table saw accident? Maybe a few who have their hair or clothing caught in the motor but people die fixing cars and having clothes caught in the fan belt.

A chain saw is used by many more people per year and many more home owner types with no idea on the proper use. But I guess Gass is ok with those since he isn't competing in that market. Hey let's ban the sale and use of stoppers in bath tubs. Every year kids and adults drown in bath tubs. Again, no one dies from table saws.

[tomthetoolman40]

When do we get personal freedom back in this country?

When personal responsibility comes back and people pay for their own actions instead of suing.

[glass1]

I recently bought the rigid portable table saw. It comes with a riving knife. This is a great simple safety feature as many people are injured reaching behind the blade to keep the cut true or do not use a feed stick and wham kick back pulls hand into blade. With a riving knife one doesn't need to reach as often and if you do wham your hand hits it instead of the blade.

[DonMirabito]

Hoover,
That comment about people using circular saws rather than spending the $1K for a table saw brought back a memory for me. I recall many years ago seeing someone had built a homemade table saw using a circular saw, a milk crate, a piece of plywood(for the table) and a bar clamp(?) for a fence. It was lightweight, compact and quite portable. Maybe I should make one as I'm sick of carry my big saw around....Thanks for the tip!!!

Oh yeah, I'm sure it would be OSHA approved....;-)

Don

[S.Joisey]

The OP link told the PTI side of things.

Here's a link to the government side.

http://search.cpsc.gov/query.html?qt...set=iso-8859-1

I believe past threads on this topic established that table saw safety standards were being pushed by the insurance industry, not just Stephen Glass,

You can see why.

According to info in the government link, table saw accidents cost hundreds of millions of dollars each year in medical expenses. This is reflected in our insurance rates.

I'm willing to support mandatory safety features on table saws, with the provision that there be an anticipated payback period of three years on their additional cost through lowered insurance premiums.