Crown install.

[bobguy]

I'm new here. Hello all. I'm from Maine and am trying to live in Florida in the winter. I'm trying to work as a finish carpenter in the Miami area. I have thirty years experience. I picked up a job installing Crown in a high end home close to my home. I thought I was lucky until I started the job and found out there was no framing in the outside walls. (I wondered why they wanted the trim glued on as well as nailed.) The walls (exterior walls) are 9' 2" and are strapped with 8' strapping with a strip along the top to facilitate drywall but leaves nothing to attach crown. The contractor (a fairly big one) told be that liquid nails (I used pl 400) and cris cross finish nails area common technique in south Florida? In Maine not nailing to framing would be shoddy at best, unethical at worst. In all fairness, I botched a piece of trim at the end of one day and removed it the next day. It came off pretty hard. Interior walls have metal framing that I was able to find fairly efficiently with a magnetic stud finder, even though the contractor did not like me taking the time to find the framing. (I took the job by the hour). What do you think? I've pretty much decided
not to do another job under these circumstances but wonder if I'm being militant and not open to how things are done in other places. Your thoughts fellow finishers?

[Happy Home]

Sounds like you have some things figured out....at least about the glue up.....not locating the studs, high end homes not getting acceptable techniques.

If you can find some compromise between time and quality I'd suggest putting up back up blocking (the name of which escapes me at the moment) in the corner. You rip 2 x same as the spring angle glue and nail it up. Then apply the crown.

[bobguy]

I've already completed the job for the most part. I was wondering what some contributors here thought of the required techniques. I found other things odd down here (Florida) as well. For instance, I was coping a piece for an inside corner. I might as well have been in a parade. I don't think anyone on the job ever saw a coping saw before. Apparently, compound miters for inside corners are acceptable here. Unheard of in Maine. Always coped. (I also work in Ma and R.I.) Are there Florida finish people on this forum?

[Trim man]

I moved to Colorado {and back} a couple years ago. It amazed me how different home building is in the two areas. What is quality there, would not make it here.

[bobguy]

I moved to Colorado {and back} a couple years ago. It amazed me how different home building is in the two areas. What is quality there, would not make it here.

Trim, EXACTLY! I wondered if it was even competent to install crown to drywall. I still don't know if it is commonly done here.

[Lettusbee67]

I almost always rip angled 2x material for crown backing. I generally like to have the backer pieces ripped at the shop, to keep onsite time to a minimum. It would be straight forward to screw it to the metal studs with the proper screws.

I also cope crown, but I admit that out here it is more common to miter it. At least in typical homes, versus the higher end homes.

As far as Colorado vs East Coast. I have spent my entire career here in Colorado, but I had the good luck to work with a custom home builder from the East, early in my career. I only spent about a year with him, but I learned a lot of framing & trim tricks from him.

Also, one of my best friends is a carpenter who moved here from VA, and even though he's been here for several years now, he is still shocked daily by some of our methods and materials.

If I need it done fast, don't call him. If I need it done with the utmost attention to detail, he's the guy.

[jobercian]

Blocking is nice, for sure.

It really depends on the size of the crown and the material.

3 5/8" mdf or preprimed crossnailed and caulked will probably last forever(ish).

6 1/2" cherry- might want to find studs or put up continuous blocking.

I am amazed at how many times I have taken all the screws out of a cabinet only to have it still hanging on the wall just by the caulk. Even then, they can be hard to rip off.

The PL glue will certainly hold it. When I need to glue trim I use the loctite stuff- I like that it is water cleanup and white, so you can kind of smear squeeze-out like caulk.

I don't know what the hell they are doing on the west coast, though.

Cheers,

[magna111]

I am amazed at how many times I have taken all the screws out of a cabinet only to have it still hanging on the wall just by the caulk. Even then, they can be hard to rip off.
,

Even more amazing is when you take all the screws out, there is no caulk, but the cabinet is glued in place where the screws clamped it to day old paint.

[bobguy]

Thank you Gentlemen. It would appear my concerns with gluing on the trim are unwarranted. I wish I had thought of the locktite product. I would have saved a brand new pair of work pants. I couldn't help wiping my fingers on them from time to time and the pl doesn't wash off.. I guess coping trim may not be as crucial as I thought. Oh, the painter uses a high quality silicanized latex caulking which should provide further adhesion. I guess it won't fall on any ones head.
lettusbee.....I think I would remind you of your Va. friend. lol

[philthegreek]

Regarding the crown, what the other guys said. ;-)
Regarding your pants, always have a terrycloth rag when you are going to deal with caulk or PL.
I use a shower curtain ring through the rag and dangle it from my rig if I'm wearing it or my belt loop if not. I worked as an auto technician for many years and you learn your lesson the first time you get into a customers car with smeared pants and have to eat the full detail job you just bought. ;-)

Phil

[mtsmt7]

I have been working exclusively on high end homes in florida for the last nine years( usually 4 mil. to 15 mil.) l and we never look for the metal studs unless the trim needs to move in for a wall bulge. Most of the drywall finish is level five so the chance of bulges are minimal. Some of our jobs they use five eights drywall and put plywood a half inche above the spring line for crown backing. The florida ways are alot different than anywhere else I think.
You have also think that the two places have a lot of different structual requirments. The north has downloads the south has uplift. I worked in colorado and virginia and central and souther florida for the last 30 plus years. I have trouble just trying to use a kreg jig or a plumb bob in some of the places in florida. I try and cope all the base that is paint grade. We use a lot of mdf crown which we cut flat and glue ( I try and use a lot of that but some even complain about that ) . I hope you will not get to frustrated but keep trying to learn the faster not necessary better ways to get the job done and please the contractor . I know if I go home knowing I did the best I can then I am able to sleep well. I think that this website has some of the best people and most reliable information that we can get and I am always checking and trying to make myself better informed and more knowledgeble. You are in a uphill battle for sure but not impossible.

[Gray Carpentry]

I started my finish carpentry career in South Florida. Most of my work was high end residential between West Palm and Ft Lauderdale. I left six years ago. I literally ran miles of crown before I left. Typical construction is metal studs on interior walls and 1x2 furring strips nailed to concrete block on exterior walls. 5/8" drywall is more common than 1/2". Usually there is zero blocking or other considerations given for interior trim. Your best bet is to glue and nail crown backer ripped out of 2x. Most often you will not be given the time or $$ to take this step. Cross nailing (butterfly nailing) and adhesive will generally be enough to hold your most common crowns.

You are spot on about mitering vs coping. With a good angle finder and glued miters you will be fine. Seasonal movement is much less of a concern down there. No one will expect coped joints and they probably will frown about the time it takes. Even if you are fast at it.

South Florida is a wierd place for finish carpentry. What would be very high end elsewhere is treated like tract housing. I've trimmed several 5 million + homes down there and the emphasis was definately not on quality. That said, you will find some of the finest work ever seen, you just have to step up to the 12-20 million range.

Your best bet is to steer clear of the contractors and new construction work. There is (or was, I should say) a ton of residential work to do for homeowners where quality will be appreciated and the money will be much better. Tapping into this market is a little more difficult, but you will have a much better time. There are a few good remodeling contractors down there as well. You should get to know the sales people at all the local lumberyards. Most of my work came from referrals from salesmen and counter help. As you know, Most people down there are from somewhere else and they don't know who to trust or how to find someone reputable. Your good reputation at the lumberyards is where you will make your money.

[Lavrans]

I'd join in on the "no problem with adhesive and cross nailing" crowd. I would go with adhesive over adding back-blocking. Dots are better than trying to get a full line of adhesive. Really, that's going to keep it to the wall as good as nailing into studs. The only real problem is it tends to get over the walls a bit when installing long pieces solo- rags are good, as is water-soluble. Not on cross-nailing- most of the time it's good enough to just change the angle of the nail from one spot to the next- I see people cross nailing trying to hit it through the same spot and it just leaves a huge hole, or two holes right next to each other. Keep 'em separated.

[bobguy]

One thing I did find out. I leave stray adhesive until the next day and it peels right off, sort of like candle wax. Trying to wipe it off doesn't work very well.

[texastutt]

And BTW welcome to JLC forums.
I glue and cross nail when I get in poorly framed basements, or homes, it's not worth the effort to fight finding studs.