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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Discovery Bay CA
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    1,245

    Default Chappell Master Framing Square

    You can follow my review of the Chappell Master Framing Square here.

    http://www.contractortalk.com/f14/re...07283/index10/


    The information printed on the Chappell Master Framing Square makes the Construction Master Calculator look like an apprentice roof framing calculator.

    The more I look at the information printed on the Chappell Master Framing Square, I'm inclined to think that all other framing squares used for roof framing are obsolete.

    Sim
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    Quote Originally Posted by sbebuilders View Post
    You can follow my review of the Chappell Master Framing Square here.

    http://www.contractortalk.com/f14/re...07283/index10/


    The information printed on the Chappell Master Framing Square makes the Construction Master Calculator look like an apprentice roof framing calculator.

    The more I look at the information printed on the Chappell Master Framing Square, I'm inclined to think that all other framing squares used for roof framing are obsolete.

    Sim

    There is also another general thread about the Chappell Universal Framing Square here;
    http://www.contractortalk.com/f40/ch...square-107220/
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas 76109
    Posts
    292

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    I don't do framing, but out of curiosity I thought I would take a look at the framing square link at contractortalk. I have always been impressed watching a good framer do wonders with a framing square.
    However the site was so cluttered and overlaid with advertising that I could not read the article.
    Sure makes one appreciate jlconline.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Discovery Bay CA
    Posts
    1,245

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    Here's a link to the Chappell Master Framing Square review at my website.

    http://www.sbebuilders.com/Chappell/

    Sim

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    5,576

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    Quote Originally Posted by sbebuilders View Post
    You can follow my review of the Chappell Master Framing Square here.

    http://www.contractortalk.com/f14/re...07283/index10/


    The information printed on the Chappell Master Framing Square makes the Construction Master Calculator look like an apprentice roof framing calculator.

    The more I look at the information printed on the Chappell Master Framing Square, I'm inclined to think that all other framing squares used for roof framing are obsolete.

    Sim
    Sim,

    If you feel that way about the CM, you will need to look at the BuildCalc app for iPhone/iPad or Andriod platform. I read your review on your site. This construction calculator app produces all of the angles in a lst form. It also gives area of each hip section, makes it easy to figure needed sheathing and roofing.

    Not taking away from this square, just that there is a far better calculator avalible.

    Tom
    http://chicagocraftsmen.org/2011/06/261.html

    Check with the AHJ, what we say doesn't matter.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sterling Heights, MI
    Posts
    4,614

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    Quote Originally Posted by tjbnwi View Post
    Sim,

    If you feel that way about the CM, you will need to look at the BuildCalc app for iPhone/iPad or Andriod platform. I read your review on your site. This construction calculator app produces all of the angles in a lst form. It also gives area of each hip section, makes it easy to figure needed sheathing and roofing.

    Not taking away from this square, just that there is a far better calculator avalible.

    Tom
    Tom, I just went to youtube and watched some videos about Buildcalc. I didn't see any about calculating roof materials. Does it do that?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    5,576

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    Jim,

    Yes it does give you squares per Hip/valley section. You have add the actions to get the total. These screen shots show the info that it produces in the Advanced Roof function. Due to limits of the forum you will need to look at the next post for area.

    The display of angles is set to miter saw, there is also the option to set to protractor.

    Tom
    Attached Images Attached Images
    http://chicagocraftsmen.org/2011/06/261.html

    Check with the AHJ, what we say doesn't matter.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    5,576

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    The screen shot on the left is a continuation of the Advanced Roof function. The area for this pie section is the last line. You have to add all the areas together to get the total. I do know he is working on an input of total number of like size areas to achieve total squares.

    The screen shot on the right is a simple gable roof with a 5/12 pitch. That is the total for both sides of the roof.

    Tom
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by tjbnwi; 11-28-2011 at 07:53 AM. Reason: spelling
    http://chicagocraftsmen.org/2011/06/261.html

    Check with the AHJ, what we say doesn't matter.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Cape May County, New Jersey
    Posts
    251

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
    Sim,

    Any framer who doesn't get one of these is a complete moron. There is no excuse not to buy one. It's like comparing using a handsaw to a circular saw. Compare this to a normal framing square...there is no comparison. It's that simple!
    Even if I were to buy one of these squares, I still feel as though I'd still be saddled with a calculator for at least multiplication purposes. I came across this square a while back and brought it up on this forum, http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/s...raming+squares . There wasn't the interest from the advanced math guys like Sim and Joe and the others. Why now? You guys on the take?

    -Nate

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Port Orchard, WA
    Posts
    2,635

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    Sim,

    I got one too and am just starting to get into the book. I can't get into it much this week. We have a week of dry weather forecast and we are starting a foundation today for a friend.

    But I don't have much experience with a square, so I'll be asking questions

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    753

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    I’m certainly not an authority on every angle cut that you can derive with use of a Framing Square or Calculator. There are some things that I have repeated enough to be familiar with. There are a more that I rarely need and for when-or-if I encounter them, I keep a notebook or other reference handy.


    It really pays to do your homework though. I really haven’t found anything that beats a good spreadsheet for getting my homework done. And for onsite calcs, or double checks, a CM Pro w/trig is what I presently use.


    Most common Rafter tables used; (IMO) the first two.

    The better common Framing Squares have the first two table reference lines related to “Lengths per Foot Run”. This is Run of the Commons, even the H/V lengths are per foot, common run.


    I found that I could multiply the whole number of feet of a rafters run by the Length-Per-Foot (LPF) and get a rafter length that was good for that “whole-foot” part of the rafter. I’d step off the remaining inches and fractions that were over the whole foot dimensions. To step off the H/V rafters remainder, I would note the height of the commons added step-off and use that for my step-off length addition and at Pitch/17. (Another way to do it was to measure the diagonal line across the square for the common run remainder and use that as the base length step-off, P/17.)


    Later I realized that I could divide the Decimal Inch LPF by 12, (Trig; Secant function), I’d get a ratio that I could multiply the run (converted to decimal inches) and calculate the total Common Rafters lengths, H/Vs too. The Decimal fraction (< 1”) part was an easy conversion. If the walls were standing when I was verifying my spans, then there would be a nearby stud with a lot of pencil calculating done on it. I soon found a good use for the free solar powered credit card sized calculators that were popular back then.


    I used to use 5 out 6 lines on the square fairly regular. I never found a use for “Side cut Hip or Valley”. I mostly framed simple stuff and always use modern circular saws and did not do anything that I know of that that scale would have worked for. (“purlin lip angles” ? perhaps. Idk) The “Side Cut of Jacks Use” table is great for sheathing cuts.


    I’m just guessing that I’m not the only guy out there that progressed in learning the square in similar ways. The updates that the Chappell MF Square has on it seems to reflect this and it also seems like a natural progression to me. It has more info on it than I will probably use and other stuff I could have used a long time ago.


    I think if you haven’t taken any formal training in roof cutting then this square and the user’s manual will teach you things that you didn’t know you should know. At least that is my pre-ownership evaluation. I really expect it to live up to the hype.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    The story behind the square:

    As a young carpenter starting out in 1970 framing houses and condos on the eastern slope of the Rockies, I reveled in the challenge of building complex roof systems. At that time, the framing square was still the quintessential tool of the carpenter—the first tool purchased, along with a hammer. The most valuable and respected person on the crew was the one who had proven mastery of roof framing and the framing square. I set my goal early on to master the square and the art of roof framing, seeking every opportunity to work with the veteran carpenters on the crew to learn every trick I could. I soon learned however, that the tables on the standard square were limited to only a few of the most fundamental bits of information and that the masters of the square relied on other knowledge, and even with these so called 'tricks', there was still much head scratching involved. This was especially true for bastard roofs and polygons. Challenged to understand, I soon began to develop my own system of determining compound cut angles that I could then apply to the square to facilitate the layout of even the most complex roof system with absolute accuracy, and no head scratching. I continued to methodically develop and fine tune this approach until it was a complete system, and in the late 1980's began to teach it to my students in advanced roof framing courses. Motivated by the belief that the framing square is still the best layout tool available to the carpenter, coupled with the decrease in the manufacturing quality of the squares on the market, I had threatened for years to design a new framing square that met the needs of the modern carpenter. A square that would embody all of the novel approaches I had developed to allow the layout of even the most complex roof systems in an easy-to-use format. At last, I sat down to make it my principal task in the fall of 2009, and the result is the patented Chappell Universal Square.

    The demise of the manufacturing capabilities in America over the last decade or so posed many unexpected hurdles in the development of the square. To fulfill my desire to manufacture the square in the U.S.A, we were forced to reinvent and redevelop systems from scratch. Through many trials and many errors, and many junk prototypes along the way, the end result is a square that is largly crafted by hand, and one that I believe will live up to the claim as The Best Square in the Universe.

    My original goal when I set out to develop the square was to make a solid, durable, and accurate square that would provide long-term value to the carpenter not only through many years of use, but also through expanded creativity. It is my belief that we hit the mark, and believe you will agree once you've used the Chappell Universal Square. I'll even back this up with a straightforward guarantee. I invite you to see for yourself by putting it to the test. If you ever feel that it does not live up to the claim as the Best Square in the Universe, simply send it back to me and I'll send you a complete refund including shipping. Most of all, I hope the new square helps you to become more creative. —Steve Chappell

    Source: http://www.chappellsquare.com/
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    Last edited by mortyten; 11-29-2011 at 09:18 AM. Reason: show source

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    753

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    What happened to the "Top Cut" question? Lol


    It doesn't matter, I knew you were just messing with me.


    Are you the Senior Chappell?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    No, soy el hijo del señor Chappell. ;-)
    Last edited by mortyten; 12-02-2011 at 11:50 PM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: Chappell Master Framing Square

    Happy to say our Framing Squares are now available through Lee Valley.

    http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...69&cat=51&ap=1

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