window replacement

[S.Joisey]

Just looked at a window replacement job. It gave me pause as the inside walls are wallpapered. Normally I'll figure on spackle and touch up paint in case the new trim doesn't fit perfect or the old window isn't quite level and I put the new in level.

Seems to be no forgiveness in wallpaper. Any tips for handling this?

[gburnet]

Can you install wider casing than what's currently there? We've used this approach on a few occasions when we've encountered wallpaper, faux painting, etc.

[S.Joisey]

Casing is 2 1/4" ranch. Not sure what else to go to without making it look too heavy, and out of sink with he rest of the trim.

[Lettusbee67]

We quite often have the mill shop run us a 2-3/4" or 3" ranch. It may seem like extra money, but I've found that it avoids huge hassles at the tail end of the job. Witht the ranch profile. You have to be careful though, so it doesn't come out looking like baseboard.

It helps if you have a piece to display to the owner before you present your bid. And are able to explain why it is necessary, and cost efficient.

[Tom Bainbridge]

agree wholeheartly with lettus

most of the time original trim is a bit mean, almost all customers love the better proportions

[MKnAs Dad]

Use 1/4" lattice to be able to spread your margins to make it work.

[Tom Bainbridge]

MKs dad

i dont recognise 1/4 lattice, would you give me a link?

point being that i often have to match full size inch timber carcassing to metric carcassing

the difference is 6mm very close to 1/4 inch, 6.35mm

[Shawn Prentice]

Tom, it is just 1/4" stock in various widths.

Steve's mention of lattice is exactly how it's done. Bump the window out 1/4", add the 1/4" "extensions", and install the casing. I can get back to or beyond the paint line on 99% of the windows I install, so it is rarely a concern for me. With a little forethought, I can even cover the paint line around the horns for stool and apron trim outs.

For aesthetics, I like to make the reveal off the inside of the window jamb to the lattice greater than the reveal from the edge of the lattice to the casing, e.g. 3/8" off the jamb to the lattice, then 1/4" off the lattice to the casing. Sometimes the jamb to lattice distance is greater depending on how far you need to go to get to the paint line, but I always have the 1/4" from lattice to casing reveal.

[S.Joisey]

Tom, it is just 1/4" stock in various widths.

Steve's mention of lattice is exactly how it's done. Bump the window out 1/4", add the 1/4" "extensions", and install the casing. I can get back to or beyond the paint line on 99% of the windows I install, so it is rarely a concern for me. With a little forethought, I can even cover the paint line around the horns for stool and apron trim outs.

For aesthetics, I like to make the reveal off the inside of the window jamb to the lattice greater than the reveal from the edge of the lattice to the casing, e.g. 3/8" off the jamb to the lattice, then 1/4" off the lattice to the casing. Sometimes the jamb to lattice distance is greater depending on how far you need to go to get to the paint line, but I always have the 1/4" from lattice to casing reveal.

So in other words, you have a two step reveal - from the jamb to the lattice, then the lattice to the casing, as in the sketch?

How does this look with the windows two stepped, and the doors standard reveal?

[MKnAs Dad]

That's exactly what I was talking about. The only difference between what I do and what Shawn does, from my interpretation, is that I always leave 1/4" reveal from ext jamb for the lattice, and then leave the margin needed to cover paint/wallpaper line. Unless it is not possible, I always try to keep the margins the same. i.e if you have a reveal of 1/4" for the jamb to the lattice, and on one side need to spread the reveal 1/2" but onlt 1/4" on the other side, I would spread all 4 sides to 1/2" reveal.

[S.Joisey]

Thanks, all.

Now that I have a few minutes, I'd like to go over the entire job, as there are a number of aspects with which I have little experience. There is a good chance I'll pass on the job, but at the least I'd like to talk this through and use this to increase my knowledge.

First, most of the windows are set in brick. Interior finishes are primarily wallpaper, with paneling in the kitchen, and a couple of baths where the wainscoting is tiled up to the window casing. So I need to be precise inside and out.

The experience factor is an issue for me here. Brick facade houses are uncommon here. I can count the number of these homes I've worked on on exactly one finger.

My first inclination is to use replacement sash, and not disturb the trim. However, client wants to eliminate painting, so how do I handle the exterior trim ? Is it feasible to clad the sill and trim? I hate cladding trim- a little bit of water underneath causes a lot of rot.

[S.Joisey]

There are two bow windows in the project, the largest being approx 11'x6'. Client doesn't like the bow, so wants them straight picture windows with flanking double hungs.

The brick under the large bow is curved in the contour of the window, so I'd need to do some carpentry/masonry work underneath to get proper drainage.

As you can see from the pics, it is quite a distance form the driveway to the window. How do I get a window like that to the work area and set in place? Is it possible to hand carry a window that size? Or should it be trucked in over the lawn and concrete walkway?

And there is the sizing issue - if it is not a standard size opening, I would need a window that comes in custom sizes, which limits which brands I can use.

[Shawn Prentice]

So in other words, you have a two step reveal - from the jamb to the lattice, then the lattice to the casing, as in the sketch?

Yes, that's how I do it. Usually I'm installing Marvins, so the jamb is 1-3/16 and allows plenty of room to make that first reveal whatever I need so that it ends up being at least 2-1/2" from the edge of the lattice to the paint line for 2-1/4" casing. Whichever side has the furthest distance from jamb to paint line is the number I use to figure my reveals. IOW, every side is trimmed with the same reveals unless there is something that would make that impossible, e.g. a kitchen sink window with tile on the sides, backsplash on the bottom. In that case, I make the reveals whatever they need to be for the trim to work.

How does this look with the windows two stepped, and the doors standard reveal?

It looks fine as long as your last reveal equals that 1/4" standard reveal to match the rest of the home's trim. For all your customer knows, that piece of lattice is part of the window.

I noticed in Steve's post 10 that we have the same idea, just do the reveals different. I like to make that last reveal, lattice to casing, match the existing trim. Though, I would do it the way he does it on a window with 3/4" jambs and a greater distance to make up to get to the paint line just because you can't do a wider reveal from the jamb to lattice without running out of jamb to nail the lattice to.

[S.Joisey]

The other issue is location. Wish I had taken a pic of their postcard view of a salt marsh. Beautiful, however, it's a nasty location for aluminum cladding. So it seems to limit my options to vinyl clad like Andersen, or fiberglass clad like Marvin Integrity ( which I've never worked with). Andersen can't give me custom sizes if I need them, not sure of Marvin, so which brand window will meet my needs?

[Shawn Prentice]

My first inclination is to use replacement sash, and not disturb the trim. However, client wants to eliminate painting, so how do I handle the exterior trim ? Is it feasible to clad the sill and trim? I hate cladding trim- a little bit of water underneath causes a lot of rot.

Use Marvin windows with the frame expander trim and that will solve your problem. If you are using some other window brand and they absolutely don't want to paint, but you also don't want any rotting under the trim wraps, then maybe use pvc trim under the wraps. Yes, more money, but no rotting.

Here is a Marvin with the frame expander in a brick opening: