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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
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    4,685

    Default Crown @ Roof Eaves

    I have custom framing job coming up that has crown molding at the eaves and rakes, and the eaves wrap around onto the gable walls and return. The return is a hip roof. I'm not too familiar with this detail... I think I've done this maybe 3 times overall, and it's been a long time since the last one.

    Couple of questions:

    Does crown molding have a "typical" spring angle? Iow, don't most crown moldings lie at about X degrees?
    If you wanted to, couldn't you adjust that angle to "force" the crown to lie, say, square to the roof plane?

    I'm in the process of doing some shop drawings, mainly so I can see for myself how the crown will affect the heel height of the trusses, because the house has different roof pitches. I also want to be able to look at a detailed drawing so I can decide how this will all go together, and in what order. (iow, does the crown have to be installed before the roof goes on... think: drip edge overlapping the top edge of the crown... "rake" crown dying onto the hip roof returns...)

    Thanks for any advice, tips, etc!

    Tom
    1) Unconsciously Incompetent: He knows not, and knows not that he knows not. He is a fool. Shun him.
    2) Consciously Incompetent: He knows not, and knows that he knows not. He is simple. Teach him.
    3) Unconsciously Competent: He knows, and knows not that he knows. He is asleep. Wake him.
    4) Consciously Competent: He knows, and knows that he knows. He is wise. Follow him.

    May we all endeavor to progress from not knowing that we know not, to knowing that we know.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Oak Park, Illinois
    Posts
    463

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    Tom-

    I did exactly what you are talking about on my house. Unfortunately, I can't go out to shoot some pics for you cause I have to go out through my daughter's room (walk-out roof deck), as she is still sleeping. Check back later this morning for pics.

    I have an intersecting gable roof with a 12/12, with cornice returns, and on one side have flanking shed dormers with a 5/12. Before sheathing the roof, I laid out the detail with the fascia, exact crown and metal drip edge to determine the roof sheathing overhang. Installed the fascia, and drip edge, let the roofers shingle, then installed the crown. This way the roofers could do a good job on the returns, then I fitted the crown on the rake to come down onto the shingles of the return. I also held up the crown off the shingles so the crown ends would not wick up water and could better dry out. Anyway sit tight for a while, and I'll get pics posted once "sleeping beauty" has risen.

    RJC
    Every job is a self-portrait of the person who did it. Autograph your work with quality.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, Rhode Island
    Posts
    320

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    Tom,
    A typical spring angle is 38 degrees, but it really depends on the crown. I would suggest picking out the molding before beginning any layout. Here is a profile I designed to lay flat and mimic a crown. If your project has traditional cornice returns, I would stick with a traditional crown. For installation, our order is crown and returns, drip edge, roofing on return, rake crown, drip edge on rake, back to roofing.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Western suburbs of Chicago
    Posts
    5,554

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    Steve, that rake crown in your picture has an interesting profile. It almost appears that it has no spring angle. Is this an illusion or reality? I can't recall seeing that profile around here.
    Greg

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, Rhode Island
    Posts
    320

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    Greg,
    It has no spring angle at all, it's just a piece of 5/4 X 4 that I mill with a profile I designed. A lot of the older houses in my town have a similar detail, basically a shadow board with a profile, the common profile is a simple elongated ogee, I dressed mine up to mimic a traditional crown. I was trying to avoid the labor of installing exterior crown as well as the cost of a second knife to make the raking crown profile.
    -Steve

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Oak Park, Illinois
    Posts
    463

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    Here ya go-

    RJC
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    Every job is a self-portrait of the person who did it. Autograph your work with quality.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Oak Park, Illinois
    Posts
    463

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    A couple more

    RJC
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    Every job is a self-portrait of the person who did it. Autograph your work with quality.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Friday Harbor, San Juan Island, Washington
    Posts
    13,029

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    Crown is good, but those shingle details on your wall are REALLY good.
    Bailer Hill Construction, Inc. - Friday Harbor, WA
    Website - Facebook

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    4,685

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    As I draw this out in Sketchup, a few things are starting to become evident. A little more info about the roof:

    They're all gables (except for the returns, which are hips). The main (gables on the ends of the house) roofs are 7/12, and the front and rear-facing gables are 9/12. Every gable has hip-roof returns.

    The eave crown is set at what appears to be the "typical" angle that most crowns sit at, which on the 9/12 roof makes the crown square to the roof plane. So this crown runs across the eaves, turns the corner at the hip roof return, and runs 3', then returns back to the gable.

    I'm posting pics of the SU drawing so far. I don't have the hip roof drawn yet, because I'm just trying to "see" how this goes together, so I can get an idea of the best order to build this. (For some reason the crown molding doesn't want to render correctly.) I purposely set the eave crown's topmost edge lower than the top of the sheathing so the drip edge wouldn't cover too much of that vertical face of the crown. That may change.

    And the plans show the vertical faces of both the eave and rake crowns in the same plane.

    From what I've drawn so far, it's apparent that a small portion of the roof will show just in front of the rake trim, down at the very bottom. (It's where the 2 lines are in #5)

    It seems to me the way to go about building this is to just leave off the rake trims and crowns entirely. Build and shingle the returns, flashing up onto the face of the sub-rake, then install the rake trims, allowing them to die right down onto the shingles, then continue shingling the gable roof.

    Does that sound right? And do you need a (metal) drip edge? Seems to me I've seen roofs with crown molding at their edges use cedar shingles as the starter course/drip edge.

    Tom
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1) Unconsciously Incompetent: He knows not, and knows not that he knows not. He is a fool. Shun him.
    2) Consciously Incompetent: He knows not, and knows that he knows not. He is simple. Teach him.
    3) Unconsciously Competent: He knows, and knows not that he knows. He is asleep. Wake him.
    4) Consciously Competent: He knows, and knows that he knows. He is wise. Follow him.

    May we all endeavor to progress from not knowing that we know not, to knowing that we know.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    4,685

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    More pics of drawings...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1) Unconsciously Incompetent: He knows not, and knows not that he knows not. He is a fool. Shun him.
    2) Consciously Incompetent: He knows not, and knows that he knows not. He is simple. Teach him.
    3) Unconsciously Competent: He knows, and knows not that he knows. He is asleep. Wake him.
    4) Consciously Competent: He knows, and knows that he knows. He is wise. Follow him.

    May we all endeavor to progress from not knowing that we know not, to knowing that we know.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    4,685

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    Last one...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1) Unconsciously Incompetent: He knows not, and knows not that he knows not. He is a fool. Shun him.
    2) Consciously Incompetent: He knows not, and knows that he knows not. He is simple. Teach him.
    3) Unconsciously Competent: He knows, and knows not that he knows. He is asleep. Wake him.
    4) Consciously Competent: He knows, and knows that he knows. He is wise. Follow him.

    May we all endeavor to progress from not knowing that we know not, to knowing that we know.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    4,685

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    Thanks for those pics RJ. I was posting and drawing while you put those up.

    Tom
    1) Unconsciously Incompetent: He knows not, and knows not that he knows not. He is a fool. Shun him.
    2) Consciously Incompetent: He knows not, and knows that he knows not. He is simple. Teach him.
    3) Unconsciously Competent: He knows, and knows not that he knows. He is asleep. Wake him.
    4) Consciously Competent: He knows, and knows that he knows. He is wise. Follow him.

    May we all endeavor to progress from not knowing that we know not, to knowing that we know.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Oak Park, Illinois
    Posts
    463

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    Tom

    I recommend using the metal drip edge in this case. It hides and helps protect the plywood edge from excessive wetting, and also comes down just a "scosh" to cover the top of crown. I pre-painted mine black and it blends in well with the shadow line of the shingle overhang.

    Good Luck,
    RJC
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Every job is a self-portrait of the person who did it. Autograph your work with quality.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NOLA
    Posts
    4,143

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    You know Tom you can use sheet metal or vinyl coil stock to create that detail with less risk of moisture damage to the crown material.

    http://www.industrialladder.com/prod...&categoryID=64

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, Rhode Island
    Posts
    320

    Default Re: Crown @ Roof Eaves

    Tom,
    I second the metal drip edge. I use the wood shingle drip edge on occasion when installing rods for hanging gutters, but even then the wood shingles go over the metal drip edge and ice and water. The shingles function very well as a drip edge, but they do soak up a lot of water which is no longer compatible with how we build today. If you can, have the drip edge made up in the color of the trim (I have mine made from aluminum coil stock) so that 1. it blends in with the crown, and 2. you can have the bottom of the drip hang cover the crown and overhang an 1/8" to create a secondary "drip edge". Otherwise the water has a greater tendency to climb back up the face of crown. It's hard to see, but this is how we did it in this picture. For proportioning the size of the hipped returns, there is a good description in that book "Get Your House Right" by Marianne Cusate, we didn't get that part right in this case.
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