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  1. #1
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    Default Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    This project is so cool, I don't know if it is my own personal taste or what. I have said in the past I would love to build homes like these, very simple design, the Passive House Certification gives it a level of sophistication I would think the most dis-concerning buyer would be looking for, I guess it is just a dream for me. You could never build something like this on spec, right?

    I am posting this in response to Allan's thread on LEED Platinum as a marketing tool, I think this is so much better than a bronze plaque, I just had to post it.

    http://www.jetsongreen.com/2011/03/h...-new-york.html

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    One thing I noted was;
    For heating, the Hudson Passive Project relies on two Mitsubishi Mr. Slim heat pumps (SEER 23 and 26) and three Cadet electronic baseboard heaters.
    ... wonder how the BB heaters factor in the big pic.
    “I find the curiosity of our men with respect to this animal is pretty much satisfied.”
    ~ Meriwether Lewis

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    Ted, pardon my ignorance. I found this definition for a passive house:

    Performance Characteristics

    • Airtight building shell ≤ 0.6 ACH @ 50 pascal pressure, measured by blower-door test.
    • Annual heat requirement ≤ 15 kWh/m2/year
    (4.75 kBtu/sf/yr)
    • Primary Energy ≤ 120 kWh/m2/year (38.1 kBtu/sf/yr)

    I understand the first 2. Can you explain the last one?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    I'll bet that is all the appliances, lighting, ventilation (HRV) and so on.


    Phil
    It's better to try and fail, than fail to try.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgbldr View Post
    • Primary Energy ≤ 120 kWh/m2/year (38.1 kBtu/sf/yr)

    I understand the first 2. Can you explain the last one?
    Fellas,

    I'm no expert on this Passive House stuff, I just like it.

    So from a Google I found this:

    "Primary energy is energy contained in raw fuels or other naturally occurring forms of energy before it undergoes transformation or is put to a use. It is a measure of the energy potential of a source, what could be used if conditions were ideal - which they are however not, for the largest part. Electricity derived from fossil fuels e.g. loses around 2/3 of its energy potential in the transformation and transportation process. In other words: it needs roughly 3 parts fossil fuel to generate one part of usable electric energy."

    PS - How do you think they get that warm glow on the front photo? That has to be incandescent bulbs, no?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    I think some of this stuff is very cool, but once you start "certifying" it and gaming it, it becomes pretty stupid.

    From the requirements I posted (from the certifying authority website), I guess I could build a minimally insulated (or uninsulated) house in a cooling-only climate and call it good. Seems they worry only about heating.

    Also the requirement for air tightness is superfluous. You already have an energy consumption limit.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgbldr View Post
    I think some of this stuff is very cool, but once you start "certifying" it and gaming it, it becomes pretty stupid.
    I understand your point and I agree to some extent. However I seem to be running into many developers who are building "green" in their own definition and that's a problem. They are trying to attract buyers or trying to win tax credits and have little experience with "green" building and start spouting off about how because they bought some sort of locally built door they have "the states greenest project" as it was quoted to me.

    Now I'm not much of an activist for green, but that pisses me off because its the buyer that gets hurt. So I muster up everything I have and beat them down not so much because I am a greenie but because they are a lair.

    Like I said, I would love to build this type of project but in the end, I don't think I could because I would like to see nice appliances, nice shower heads, etc. So now what? I try and sell the product saying it's "Passive House" but with luxury products? Understand my point?

    It's almost like you have to get the certification so that you can say you met certain requirements, or you open yourself up to interpretation and judgments.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    I agree on the green stuff but when it's limited to energy efficiency, it's not that hard to enforce.

    Set a limit of xxx cu.ft. of gas or yyy kWh electricity/year. You can also mix & match. Then have the utility stop delivery when you reach the limit. Until next Jan 1st.

    Pretty simple. All you gotta do is pay the neighbors to snitch if they see propane bottles being delivered surreptitiously :)

    Now, just to complicate things a bit. Shouldn't we incentivize people to build/live in the areas with the lowest degree-day cooling and heating? If we're going to try to influence public behavior, it would seem to me you'd want to tax the hell out of people in Dave N''s neighborhood and maybe places like Brownsville. It takes a lot more resources to accomplish a livable indoor environment in those areas compared to San Diego, for example.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    I don't know DG,

    You may have very good points but I just like the photos of the house. I'm just it it for a good time.

    I don't care about the politics or the rules or the standards or the certifications- important or not- I just want to build cool stuff.

    Heck, I don't even like people so if you can't build that project on spec I'm out, I could never deal with a client because their opinions are stupid.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    [QUOTE=dgbldr;594097

    Now, just to complicate things a bit. Shouldn't we incentivize people to build/live in the areas with the lowest degree-day cooling and heating? .[/QUOTE]

    Excellent, OK everybody, we're all moving to Hawaii. That should be incentive enough.;-)


    Phil
    It's better to try and fail, than fail to try.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    Ted:

    I like the architecture as well, except for the fact that it looks too much like a chapel, and who would want to live in a building that looks like a chapel? I like the fact that it has a lot of glass and light streaming in, unlike other Passivehaus designs I've seen that look like 19th century boxes with small areas of glass. I also agree with DG:
    Quote Originally Posted by DG
    Now, just to complicate things a bit. Shouldn't we incentivize people to build/live in the areas with the lowest degree-day cooling and heating? If we're going to try to influence public behavior, it would seem to me you'd want to tax the hell out of people in Dave N''s neighborhood and maybe places like Brownsville. It takes a lot more resources to accomplish a livable indoor environment in those areas compared to San Diego, for example.
    I think relocating the population would be a better alternative to reducing the lifestyle of the entire population, the late Nelson Polsby warned that the invention of central air conditioning in the 50s was going to have major impacts on our political and cultural demographics of this country as the population shifted south for warmer weather.
    Quote Originally Posted by New York Times
    In 2004, in “The Importance of Constituents,” he attributed the shift of power in the House to demographic changes. One reason for these, he said, was the availability of residential air-conditioning, which drew Republicans to the South, where they seized the conservative banner from traditional Democrats.¹
    I knew several people who were here who moved to Arizona and Texas for the lower prices of real estate, only to find that they were paying large amounts to cool their homes offsetting any money they had saved by selling their homes here and moving there, now business are flocking to Texas for lower prices, employee wages, regulation, and fleeing California's impending Cap & Trade law, in fact a California legislator is going to Texas to conduct a symposium with California businessmen who have moved their businesses to Texas to find out their main reasons for doing so. People and businesses moving from California to Texas are going to be consuming much more energy, but I would bet that their main reason is lax regulation.


    ¹ http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/09/ob.../09polsby.html
    When fascism comes to America it will not be in brown and black shirts, it will not be with jack-boots, it will be in Nike sneakers and Smiley shirts. Germany lost the Second World War, Fascism won it. George Carlin 1937 - 2008

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Seibert View Post
    but I would bet that their main reason is lax regulation.
    Since they produce 39% of the toxic waste in this land, won't be long before they of their own volition introduce a C&T like program, or secede... in one form or another. Of course by then the right folks will be spending on research to ease the guilt like our GM of TEL did. Read a bio of Yandell Henderson, Ethyl.
    “I find the curiosity of our men with respect to this animal is pretty much satisfied.”
    ~ Meriwether Lewis

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    I had commented to Dick about Serious Windows on Allan's Leed thread. I see they used them on this project. We were looking at them for a remodel project that was going to have a large amount of glass. Anyone have opinions or use them before. Since they are made in Boulder they are also nice and close by.
    Andy

    "If you find yourself in a hole - stop digging" - Unknown
    "No one is in business to buy my product" - Unknown

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Seibert View Post
    I knew several people who were here who moved to Arizona and Texas for the lower prices of real estate, only to find that they were paying large amounts to cool their homes offsetting any money they had saved by selling their homes here and moving there, now business are flocking to Texas for lower prices, employee wages, regulation, and fleeing California's impending Cap & Trade law, in fact a California legislator is going to Texas to conduct a symposium with California businessmen who have moved their businesses to Texas to find out their main reasons for doing so. People and businesses moving from California to Texas are going to be consuming much more energy, but I would bet that their main reason is lax regulation.
    Once there are enough people who have moved from CA to TX they can vote in similar legislators to what they voted in in CA. Then they can introduce similar laws in TX and make it like CA.. :-)
    Andy

    "If you find yourself in a hole - stop digging" - Unknown
    "No one is in business to buy my product" - Unknown

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Hudson Passive Project; one of the highest performing homes in the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy
    Then they can introduce similar laws in TX and make it like CA.. :-)
    That's already happening, lots of Democrats and gays have moved to the Austin area.

    Since we have so many here who belong to the "Save the Earth" religion, I wonder how many here are going to observe Earth Hour tonight? I'm going to light up the whole house to show my contempt for the arrogant, ignorant, gullible people who have fallen for this scam, I have no problem with them demonstrating their beliefs, I just don't want them trying to force the rest of us into their cult.
    Last edited by Dick Seibert; 03-26-2011 at 07:48 PM.
    When fascism comes to America it will not be in brown and black shirts, it will not be with jack-boots, it will be in Nike sneakers and Smiley shirts. Germany lost the Second World War, Fascism won it. George Carlin 1937 - 2008

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