Widow sash job

[S.Joisey]

I have a window sash replacement job coming up in a few weeks. I'll be doing the work from the outside.

I'd like to seal the inside of the windows with plastic to prevent dust from entering the room. If I do so, do I need to do any other RRP practices inside the house?

Any tips on how to seal the inside of the windows? I'm not at all impressed with the way that blue tape and plastic stick together. The likely scenario seems to be that the plastic will blow off when a good wind comes. I'm considering taping the plastic, then adapting tension rods ( you know, the ones you use to hold up curtains) to help keep the plastic in place.

Anyone tried this, or have better ideas?

[Dean CRCNA]

From the EPA FAQ

Question

My firm removes and replaces windows from the exterior of a building or residence. To contain dust in
the work area, we cover the entire interior surface of the window with impermeable plastic sheeting and
affix the sheeting to the surrounding interior wall. This creates a pocket, accessible only from the exterior,
from which the window is removed and replaced. All removal and replacement work is performed from
the exterior, and we still apply the exterior containment measures as provided in the Rule. Does the
interior containment method described meet the requirements under the Rule?

Answer

No. Although EPA encourages your firm to continue to use this method of supplemental containment, the
minimum requirements of the RRP rule must still be met. Specifically, the floor surface must be covered
with taped down plastic sheeting or other impermeable material 6 feet the perimeter of the work surface,
or a distance sufficient to contain the dust, whichever is greater. Alternatively, your firm can install vertical
containment measures as described more fully in FQ 7136.

Question

When I replace windows, I set up interior vertical containment barriers that extend from floor to ceiling and
completely enclose the interior area in which I physically work. If these barriers are set up at a distance
less than six feet from the perimeter of the work surface, must I still extend the containment on the floor
beyond the vertical barrier to meet the six foot requirement?

Answer

No, provided that the vertical containment barriers are (1) impermeable (2) extend from floor to ceiling, (3)
are tightly sealed at joints with the floor, ceiling and walls (e.g. through the use of tape, foam or other
means which create tight seals), and (4) effectively create an entire separate enclosure. This type of
vertical containment acts as the functional equivalent of a wall for purposes of defining the work area. If
the vertical containment meets these criteria the floor containment measures may stop at the edge of the
vertical barrier.
Unlike permanent walls, however, vertical containment barriers are subject to all containment cleaning
requirements including misting, inward folding, sealing, and proper disposal following the renovation. A
firm must also thoroughly clean an additional two feet beyond the vertically-contained work area. Finally,
during ingress or egress from the vertical enclosure, a firm must take precaution to ensure that dust and
debris on personnel, tools, and other items do not escape the work area.

[Dean CRCNA]

how many windows? age of the house?

[S.Joisey]

how many windows? age of the house?

Eight. 100+.

[Dean CRCNA]

To old and to many windows to test.

Thought about this http://www.gripnguard.com/. to setup a system. Similar to what you suggest in your original post, but going to ceiling and both sides walls ... like post #2, second question.

Still think you would need to tape this stuff so the wind doesn't blow it down when window is removed.

[S.Joisey]

Thought about this http://www.gripnguard.com/. to setup a system.

Still think you would need to tape this stuff so the wind doesn't blow it down when window is removed.

That's pretty thin plastic. My guess it's almost like shrink wrap.

[S.Joisey]

Finished the job. Used 1.5 mil plastic sealed with 4" blue tape to cover the windows. The plastic came in 100' rolls. It held fine. The 4" tape helped a lot.

This is my first larger window job under RRP. It added 50 to 100% time to the job. I underestimated, so was under what I wanted to make.

I asked the clients why they chose me to do the work, since I knew I was likely higher than other bids - no other remodeler in the area is lead safe certified. They confirmed I was "a bit" higher, but they thought I was the most competent.

The problem is how do I get away with the substantial price increase I need to cover RRP? Would be nice if there was some enforcement.

[Dean CRCNA]

1. Tell them it is a LSHR. Homeowners are the one that are responsible to follow the law then.

2. Do retrofits. If you can pop the sashes out, no need to do RRP.

3. Do 1950s to 1970s homes and get them inspected. Good chance no LBP. Or at least that is how it is down here.

Window replacement, siding replacement and exterior painting have a lot of cost. Not sure what type of work you do or what you are willing to do.

[Randy Bush]

1. Tell them it is a LSHR. Homeowners are the one that are responsible to follow the law then.

2. Do retrofits. If you can pop the sashes out, no need to do RRP.

3. Do 1950s to 1970s homes and get them inspected. Good chance no LBP. Or at least that is how it is down here.

Window replacement, siding replacement and exterior painting have a lot of cost. Not sure what type of work you do or what you are willing to do.

Dean on your # 2 it has been my experiment when I did do retrofits , which I no long do, that you still need to remove some of the sash stops in order to get the old sash out. also to get a better fit on the replacement. If you are removing any stops then would not RRP apply? I do agree that most homes in the 50- 70s range will not have LBP which is all the more reason to test them.

[Dean CRCNA]

Windows aren't my specialty Joisey was replacing 8 windows. Not sure if all the stops end up being under the 20 sq ft or not. Just trying to think out side of the box some.

How have you been doing? Any RRP jobs? Life treating you good?

Looks like I'm going to become a primary RRP trainer soon. Nothing much else happening with me, except the lead testing.

[Randy Bush]

Windows aren't my specialty Joisey was replacing 8 windows. Not sure if all the stops end up being under the 20 sq ft or not. Just trying to think out side of the box some.

How have you been doing? Any RRP jobs? Life treating you good?

Looks like I'm going to become a primary RRP trainer soon. Nothing much else happening with me, except the lead testing.

Dean , Thanks for asking. I have been doing great. Lots of good work to last until spring, am even making some good money right now too. No RRP jobs lately mostly newer and new houses right now. Still thinking of being a LBP inspector, just having a hard time finding classes for it .

Correct me if I am wrong , but I was thinking on windows there is no exceptions, all pre-78 tested no LBP no RRP or if there is or not knowen follow RRP rules.

A side question for you. does HUD LBP rules exceed RRP in so much as being CLR and being EPA listed?
Hope the trainer thing goes well for you.

[Dean CRCNA]

No correction needed ... you're right (about the window) and I'm wrong. Old age is catching up with me.

Not sure I understand the HUD question.

[S.Joisey]

1. Tell them it is a LSHR. Homeowners are the one that are responsible to follow the law then.

2. Do retrofits. If you can pop the sashes out, no need to do RRP.

3. Do 1950s to 1970s homes and get them inspected. Good chance no LBP. Or at least that is how it is down here.

Window replacement, siding replacement and exterior painting have a lot of cost. Not sure what type of work you do or what you are willing to do.

What is a LSHR?

This was a sash replacement. I thought all window work needed to be RRP.
Since the new sash were thicker than the old, I needed to remove the exterior stops and install new ones at the proper depth. Lots of loose paint chips- 150 yrs worth.

Most window/sash replacements here are in buildings 100+ yrs old. No such thing as "popping a sash out" of these buildings.

[Dean CRCNA]

When we took the 8 hour class, we learned about the HUD's Lead Safe Housing Rule (LSHR) too.

If you have lots of chips and dust ... it is a RRP job for sure. The EPA in their FAQ talk about removing a door slab, window sash and other things. If you can remove them without disturbing paint RRP doesn't apply.

I inspect a lot of 50s to 70s homes. Many of them have bare aluminum windows. When I originally mentioned this, I was thinking of them. In reality, I should have kept quiet

[ThingOfBeauty]

I'm suprised it took a long time extra. Last windows I did with protection & cleaning were about an hour extra per room. Well, I'm used to using plastic to catch dust and reduce cleaning, just like EPA says in the rule preamble, so maybe I'm not counting the plastic.
I do use the 1.5 mil painter's plastic with blue tape for a lot of protection, it sticks to the tape much better than 4 or 6 mil.
When I am working a window or door opening, keeping the air from blowing through is half the battle...taping the room's door to stop air flow, or building a mini-enclosure out of foam board which is wind-resistant, are better ways than using plastic to make a vertical enclosure, in my experience. Well, you can do the plastic if you can shut the door so the wind won't take it down.