sander and or paper for RRP work

[m beezo]

OK, I know that some of you guys are not doing RRP work but I am doing it as part of my painting work. Even before RRP I would often sand anything I scraped to help smooth out the edges of the paint that remains. And I often would run it thru a vac. Now I am for sure running it thru a HEPA vac. But I am a little unhappy with the way the sanding seems to go. Not as fast as I would like, seems to go thru a lot of paper.

What I have used the most is a Porter Cable 5 inch random orbital sander. Partly because the dust bag outlet fits the vac hose pretty well.

I think some of you might suggest a Festool but I seem to have a bit of a problem with spending that much for such a nasty job as removing lead based paint. But if it is the tool to use I want to know.

Or maybe I need to find a better grade of sandpaper? Using mostly 40 grit for what I am doing. Someone make a better grade of paper than others?

[rustbucket]

I would suck it up and get a Festool RO150, or maybe a RO125. Depends on how much you need to sand. Hook it up to a vac with variable speed. Preferably Festool, but Fein and Alto and some others make them too. The Festool is really good at clearing the dust and keeping the paper clean, which will help save paper. The Festools may be spendy, but they should hold up fine. The paper really isn't that expensive, either, but it's good quality, and lasts a good while. You can also get aftermarket paper from Klingspore and others.

[No faux zone]

I've got the EST 150 by Festool. Everyone that uses it can see the difference immediately. It really does out perform all the other RO disk sanders. The paper last over twice as long, gets the job done faster, and the dust collection is superior!

The other nice thing about it is I can get different disk attachments with different hardness's. I use the most ridged for when I really need to grind something down or softer ones if I'm trying to be careful not to.

I'm very happy with all my Festool sanders, so much so that I just sold off all my other RO sanders last weekend. They just seemed worthless to me after using the best.

[gburnet]

Mark, I'll concur with what the others have said re. Festool sanders. Yes, they're pricey on the surface. But the benefits that have been mentioned far outweigh the initial investment. Why not try one out & see if it performs for you? They have a 30 day money back policy, so there's really no risk.

BTW, I have a number of their sanders & have always been pleased with their performance. The RO 125 is particularly useful for heavy & medium sanding, as it has two rotational settings. The RAS 115 excels at removing heavy paint buildup...http://www.festoolusa.com/products/rotex-sanders/

[m beezo]

Greg, The one that looks like the grinder, that really does a good job of catching the dust? That is the main thing I am concerned with besides the fact that I want to speed up the sanding a little bit. The other sander sounds a bit more like I would be interested in but I do want to look into something that is going to be a bit of a combination of sanding speed, way it collects the dust.

[gburnet]

Greg, The one that looks like the grinder, that really does a good job of catching the dust?

Yes, it's pretty good as long as the sander is placed directly over a surface & dust is not allowed to escape from the underside. As an example, the dust collection isn't that great on clapboard siding that's narrower than the diameter of the pad, but is very good on wide, flat stock.

[dgbldr]

I find my Bosch 5" orbital excellent as far as both sanding and dust collection.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846

Bought it after reading a review where it came in 1st place. The review was correct :) Did I mention you can buy about 10 of these for the price of a Festool?

For heavier work I have a 6" Metabo dual-motion, which I also like a lot.

Sandpaper I use Mirka mostly and am happy with it.

[m beezo]

Yes, it's pretty good as long as the sander is placed directly over a surface & dust is not allowed to escape from the underside. As an example, the dust collection isn't that great on clapboard siding that's narrower than the diameter of the pad, but is very good on wide, flat stock.

That seems to be a common problem with just about anyone's sander that I have used including the drywall sanders. Get part of the sander on something narrower that the pad and it does not so such a good job.

Current job that I have going involves a good amount of trim, most of which is 4 inches wide but has a few details in it. So I am constantly twisting and turning the sander to get into profiles to try to feather the edges of the paint that is left.

Mostly looking for a little better way to accomplish both the sanding and the dust pick up. May have to head up to the place that handles Festool and take a look at them.

Thanks.

[Tom Bainbridge]

ive done a lot of this and spoke to festool uk about it........ use slower speeds and finer grit

its a "german" answer and it works

but........ its FAR too slow for production



so i came up with a method of my own, its counter intuitive to everything youve been taught

its based on the fact that lead paint melts with heat

use P40 grit paper, set the sander at maximum revs and maximum cutting power

and put weight on the sander with the specific intention of clogging the paper

the festool rotex deals with the over preasure by increasing the speed to compensate

lead paint melts with heat, so increasing the heat removes the paint by melting it

the 40 grit doesnt affect the wood underneath the paint because the paper is clogged

i wear fume grade dust masks when doing this work


attention, dont run the festool sander in this manner without a dust extractor, the heat WILL fuse the sanding pad to the backing pad.......... you know ive been there

edit

you will use a lot of sanding pads, but that is just part of the cost of removing lead paint

i use festool brilliant 2 pads

[Phil Pritchard]

For narrow boards there is another solution - the Metabo LF 724 S - which is specially designed to remove paint. I've hired one of these a couple of times and they do work. They're not abrasive, though, instead they use a set of disposable carbide tips. Cost in the UK circa $280 including taxes. Video here. And just like a ROS it really requires extraction

[Audnat]

The metabo works good. We bought and used it on a house or two last year. It removed a couple layers of paint. The blade guards shoot of in the first hour though. Also you can turn the blades over as I recall. But we still went through multiple sets of blades on each house. I think they cost around $100 a pair. We didn't do much dust collection either. RRP compliance with that thing might be tricky.

[Tom Bainbridge]

the germans are hot on dust extraction, they lead the uk and the usa in their requirements in this field

all festool gear has it. metabo are no exception, the LS 724 is fitted with a dust extraction port

there is also a similar american tool with tugnsten blades that has been mentioned recently on this site

from what i remember that too has dust extraction

dont use dust extraction on your own tools on lead paint on your own work and you will die sooner than expected

let your employees use tools without dust extraction on lead paint (and they die) and your insurance company will kill your company

your choice

i remember when lead was standard in gas, the doomsayers (the lead mining companys) said the world was going to end, cars cannot run without lead

it was NEVER the case, early gas fuel didnt have lead added to it

now all cars run on unleaded fuel............. again

i also remember when asbestos was used in brake pads in cars......... the doomsayers said cars wouldnt be able to stop at traffic lights

guess what ?

cars now stop a LOT quicker than they used to on asbestos brake pads



you guys who are complaining about so called restrictive rules on lead paint

you are "barking at the moon"

2000 years ago the roman and greek doctors knew that lead was dangerous to human health


even tobacco companies have to advertise how dangerous their product is on their websites

that has taken less than 50 years to happen with a product that has been known in the western world for less than 500 years

you now argue that 2000 years of known medical history is wrong AND it is damaging your your business

get real guys, lead is dangerous to human health, our bodies cant get rid of it

[NGaskin]

I don't want to disqualify what has been said above but a few notes of caution at least from what I've been taught in the training classes.

One, heating it up is a pretty much ruled out because it turns the lead to gas which makes it far worse for the person doing the work than the dust.

Second, Becareful with the Festool/Fein vac's. Last I checked, a month or so ago, the EPA does not provide a list of approved vac's but they do say it has to be a sealed unit which I've been told Festool and Fein are not sealed units.

Again, I'm not an expert on the subject but some of the stuff listed above conflicts what the classes I've taken have told me.

[Tom Bainbridge]

ng

you are quite correct, if you use heat even in the format set out in # 9 above

you should use fume rated dust masks

your post suggests that perhaps i didnt make it as clear as id hoped it was



ps festool have some really specialised dust extractors out on the market here

some deal with asbestos and others with explosive gases

i havent however looked into their details regarding sealed units

your classes look to have been very thorough

[NGaskin]

The classes have been as thorough as they can be. Problem is my state (Kansas) adopted there own rules which are supposedly more stringint than the EPA, though they do not seem to be that bad.

My biggest complaint about the whole thing is there still seems to be to much subjective information out there instead of black and white. That probably has more to do with the state rules and what the state says than anything.

Well that and the clearence testing. They ruled out thrid party testing in my state and you can perform the clearence test yourself. For liability I would rather have a 3rd party do it. Here, we are supposed to get a swifter pad, a plastic card that has a clear patch on the bottom and the photo of a minimum passing swifter/rag above, compare the two, and take a picture.

That all sounds well and good from ease of use stand point but how well is it going to stand up to scrutiny if it comes down to it?