one month after RRP went into effect

[m beezo]

OK guys lots of us got our panties in a bunch over this stuff. I am still not totally sold or up to snuff on all of it. But what are you guys finding out about it so far? Does not seem to be the widespread panic that we were all thinking was going to happen.

Anyone not get jobs because of it for whatever reason-cost, fear, they don't care?

[Shawn Prentice]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

No problems here as of yet. My customers have been very receptive. I just got back from an estimate tonight. This client lives in a house built in the 90's. She is an existing customer and while we were talking about things other than her job I told her about these new regulations. She said if she lived in an older home, she would definitely want me to take the precautions, despite the increased cost.

Another customer whose house I was at last week (1962 home) told me she thought it was important to take the precautions to protect myself from the work I will be doing there.

Another customer whose bathroom I'm redoing next month said that even though she didn't have any kids, she thought it was a good idea.

There are more, but these are the most recent.

I know everyone's situation is different, but this is mine so far.

[always-learning]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

.... But what are you guys finding out about it so far? Does not seem to be the widespread panic that we were all thinking was going to happen.

Anyone not get jobs because of it for whatever reason-cost, fear, they don't care?

I've lost a couple of jobs because of it, but then again, I probably didn't want to work for them. They were not receptive to the extra costs, and really didn't care about the rules or regs. I was just a number to them, and not being the lowest, I wouldn't have gotten the job anyways.

Nothing about fear. They're not really interested in govt. regulations. Cost is the only issue. I haven't yet to work for anyone that has a child under the age of 6, since the new regs went into effect. I'm sure when I do, I may get a client with a little more interest.

I had an angry client, who I thought was going to throw me off of his property, but I calmed him down by selling the OPT OUT portion of the rule. He and his wife are in their mid 70's and they have no family that are target children. They built the house themselves, or had it built, and were confident that the home didn't have lead based paint. I didn't "disturb" the paint, other than install a door. The H.O., who is a former guy in the trades, removed the door himself, so I didn't have to comply anyway.

I did notate a few things, though.

I learned not to overemphasize anything related to the regs. I found some good advice here to just briefly present the rule, leaving further discussion to be "open ended", and move on to presenting my plan for the work they're requesting. This has worked out best me.

I find myself aware of my surroundings, much more than I did before. I look at each job a little differently, with the end result more focused on who and what will be the final function of the work at hand. I used to look a a home from the 1890's and think how beautiful it's construction details were, and now I look at it and search for blistering paint and rotted architectural elements. I can't help but feel a bit despondent at the same time.

I work cleaner than I did previously. I thought that I left my jobs immaculate before, but I find myself re-cleaning my re-cleaning, and washing my finished surfaces, which doesn't take very long. Much nicer looking finished product, I guess. Still not testing, since I really don't have to, but leaving with a much greater sense of sterility.

Haven't heard anything about fines, or govt. intervention, although, that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened.. Starting to think that Buesking was right, and his dog and pony show has arrived. Figure a million contractors, times $300 every 5 years (being conservative on the number) is a good way of revitalizing a sector of govt. that didn't have a whole lot of funding previously. I guess the EPA employee roster has a new group of family members that have recently found solace in knowing that they have a new place to work.

I've found that sub contractors are not as readily available, meaning that they aren't willing to work in an environment which is deemed "run down", or a house that is very old or that hasn't had much maintenance over the years. Some of them, I can't even get to respond back to me, once I mention a really old home. Luckily, these houses, are far and few between, for me and my market.

Finally, I really don't care about the issue that much anymore. I do what is necessary to get the job done, and let the rest come naturally. When I get a larger renovation before me, I'm sure I won't feel so complacent, but I'll cross that bridge when I have to.

[DonMirabito]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

All,
Hmmm... Well, it depends on what you expected. Things seem to be pretty much exactly what I expected. I'm in the Northeast. About 85% of the housing is target housing. I don't think there were many contractors who knew about the rule before it went into effect. My observations are that compliance is almost non-existent, but getting better. There are huge numbers of guys waiting for classes. The list of certified firms is growing as guys complete their training. About 2 weeks ago there were only 5 guys(including me) that were certified within 5 miles of my house; there are now 18. I think everyone is going through a learning experience trying to figure out how to implement LSWP in a cost efficient manner. The only certainty is that the EPA's estimates were VERY wrong and the costs will be much greater. How much greater we don't know yet.
Me personally? I have lost several jobs. Clients do not fully comprehend the risks so the cost/benefits do not make sense to them. If they get it for free no problem. If it costs them money they will go someplace else. Eventually, once everyone is certified and everyone is charging for the extra work this issue will become moot. People will just resign themselves to the fact that the government is PITA and blame them rather than us.
What is less obvious and I can't say is how well guys are following the LSWP's. How many guys have re-tooled so they are using tools that are connected to HEPA Vac's? How many have bought their fancy new HEPA Vac's? How many have bought stock in the poly companies?...etc. etc... I think that is going to take a while to get into the normal flow of things. I think compliance there will evolve along with the learning of how to implement the LSWP's in a cost efficient manner.

Of course your mileage may vary...

Don

[GaryJR]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

I don't see much going on with compliance. Actually, I don't see it at all.

I was indirectly involved with a project last week involving another contractor. Not to go into details, but the project was not RRP compliant. I spoke with the contractor about the additional costs to be in compliance and we figured approximately $600 - $800 additional per day for compliance. That's an informal number we put together as we spoke curbside.

Fact is, you're not really going to know what this will cost until you do a few projects to shake out all the details, and I agree with Don about his comment:
"The only certainty is that the EPA's estimates were VERY wrong and the costs will be much greater."

I do see lots of guys scrambling to get certified. Seems no one took this seriously until the law actually went into effect.

Only time will tell how this is all going to pan out, but I'll tell you right now, those flying under the radar will reap the benefits from this law. It makes their prices look much less compared to a company in compliance.

[kawendtco]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

its all about the money.

[kawendtco]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

if it was about safety and protecting people, we would eliminate artificial preservatives, cigarettes, or other tobacco, no asphalt streets, no paint of any kind, you couldnt buy batteries, change oil, buy gas, etc, etc.

[Greg Di]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

Having just come back from the dump again today, I can tell you that in a three story pile of remodeling debris, there was no poly, no bags, or any evidence of RRP-compliant work. NONE.

And I've been looking every time I go just to see what the rest of the world is up to.

[Andrew R.]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

For anyone doing RRP, I posted these before , forms you can use to move the RRP in to your contract one step at a time. I haven't seen anyone post their authorization forms so i had to go out and pay for them.


http://www.kachinaleadpaintsolutions...ore/forms.html

[GaryJR]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

Looks like the EPA certified list of contractors is going to be a good well for solicitors.

I've been receiving offers for lead safe products from various vendors and just received and e-mail from the installer relations division of Home Dumpo, northeast division, asking if I would like to come on board to be a HD installer.

The only thing that list is going to produce is tons of spam

[Overbuilders]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

Six weeks after RRP went into effect...Dancing Dan's favorite slow speaker takes action...

http://www.prosalesmagazine.com/indu...icleID=1297731

[Dean CRCNA]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

Six weeks after RRP went into effect...Dancing Dan's favorite slow speaker takes action...

http://www.prosalesmagazine.com/indu...icleID=1297731

Just wanted to clarify this article ...

The bill you are talking about is HR 4899

HR 4899 is a bill that has been passed by both house and senate recently and is now waiting for President Obama's signature.

The main purpose of the bill is to supplement certain appropriations (funds) on various organizations. At the last minute, Senator Susan Collins, R-Maine added in a section on the RRP.

There has been many news stories and rumors flying around that no fines on RRP can be accessed for a period of time. Republicans are announcing a great success by getting this passed.

In reality though, this bill will have no effect on fines that can be issued by the EPA. Following is the wording used in this new bill.

PROHIBITION ON FINES AND LIABILITY

Sec. 2002. None of the funds made available by this Act shall be used to levy against any person any fine, or to hold any person liable for construction or renovation work performed by the person, in any State under the final rule entitled ‘Lead; Renovation, Repair, and Painting Program; Lead Hazard Information Pamphlet; Notice of Availability; Final Rule’ (73 Fed. Reg. 21692 (April 22, 2008)), and the final rule entitled ‘Lead; Amendment to the Opt-out and Recordkeeping Provisions in the Renovation, Repair, and Painting Program’ signed by the Administrator on April 22, 2010.

Ultimately, it is saying that a supplemental appropriations ($2,000,000) given to the EPA for a separate study and research ... can not be used to access fines. The EPA had no intentions of using this research/study money to access fines on RRP anyway.

They (EPA) can still use other funds and money to access fines on non-complaint contractors.

This section of the bill is more for grandstanding and will not stop the EPA from giving fines to contractors.

You can learn more about this bill, at http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h111-4899

[J.Buesking]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

I have not seen one shred of compliance anywhere. Until fines are handed out you will not see it.

1% of your customer base cares about this and 99% would sign off on it and just make sure they clean everything good when your done. If they had young kids they would stay at grandma's during the project duration.

It's all about more money for the government.

[MarkMc]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

I have not seen one shred of compliance anywhere. Until fines are handed out you will not see it.

1% of your customer base cares about this and 99% would sign off on it and just make sure they clean everything good when your done. If they had young kids they would stay at grandma's during the project duration.

It's all about more money for the government.

That's what Tony Hayward was saying just a month or so ago.

[J.Buesking]

Re: one month after RRP went into effect

A home remodeling project is very similar to drilling a well a mile under water. Point taken.

It's hard to convenience a homeowner who has gutted the interior of there house while there kid sat and watched cartoons on the couch that he needs to spend extra 700.00 for RRP while I gut the exterior.

That's my point and what i'm personally up against.