anyone used the primer/paint combo paints?

[m beezo]

Guys I have been hearing a lot of talk about the new line of paints that are supposed to be a primer and paint in one can. I have not really read any reviews on them, have not tried them. I do paint and know that sooner or later someone is going to ask me about them. Right now the one I hear the most about is Behr which is Home Depot's paint.

Here are my thoughts so far and you can tell me if I am right or wrong.
Primer is a paint to help seal areas as well as help the next layer stick.
Primer is a rougher coat of paint which some refer to as tooth.
This paint/primer is touted as needing only one coat which I feel is often not enough paint on a wall.
If the finish of this paint is somewhat rougher than a regular coat of finish paint it will show dirt easier and not wear as well.
Many paint colors do not really achieve true color and hiding until they have more than one coat of paint applied.
Not every new product is as good as they might make us think.

Other area would be for those of you that hire out your painting. If your painter showed up with this type of product to use on one of your jobs what would be your response?

[philthegreek]

Valspar offers an exterior paint sans primer.
Primer- has more of what makes paint stick.
Top coat- has more of what makes paint colorful and color fast.

Primer is generally more porous than top coat, and as such should be painted over in short order. It does not prevent corrosion or rot, that is the top coats' job.

I used the valspar on a couple of entry doors about a year ago. No problems yet and they're offering lifetime warranty(whatever THAT is supposed to mean)


phil

[stamcon]

Customer on a recent job brought in her own painter. His estimate was for oil based priming all new woodwork and top coating with customer's choice oil or latex. He proceded to use Benjamin Moore Aura,(all-in-one water based primer/topcoat) instead of oil based primer and the grain raised all over the place. I wasn't pleased, by what the painter made my hard work turn into and the customer(late 70's woman) didn't want to get into too much of a battle with the painter, so the end results were very so-so. I wouldn't use a product like this on bare wood, without testing on several scrap pieces.

steve

[VTNorm]

I've been using SW Duration for a few years, it's a primer/paint combo but factory specs 2 coats. Why not use 1 coat of primer and top coat with Duration? Certainly cheaper. I used Duration on my barn, 1 coat over bare wood. Been 4 years and it still looks like it was just put on.

If I'm quoting a paint job I always include what product(s) - brand & specific paint - I'll be using and how many coats of each just so no one is surprised. The 2nd top coat is broken out as a seperate line item. If a customer wants me to use Behr or wants to supply the paint I have no responsibility other than applying it; colors, color matching, hiding power, washability, longevity...they own all of it.

-Norm

[always-learning]

.... He proceded to use Benjamin Moore Aura,(all-in-one water based primer/topcoat) instead of oil based primer and the grain raised all over the place. ....

steve

I used that paint once. That is some super thick goo.

Did it coat in the one roll that it said it would ? Yes it did.

Did it cost double the cost of a gallon of paint ? Yes it was.

Would I use it again ? No.

Way too thick. I guess if you like working with pancake batter on a roller, it's for you. I didn't like the finished product either. If you touched the surface, afterwords, it left marks where you touched it.

Not a kid friendly painted surface.

[GaryJR]

Sounds like the paint manufactures are constantly developing new ways to market the DIY.

Any pro painter will not use that crap. I'm talking a painter, not someone who applies paint to walls.

[BOC Contracting]

The cabinet maker I work with has his painted cabinets finished with Aura, for a number of reasons:
His finisher prefers to spray waterborne finishes.
It is low VOC, which is a selling point for the customer.
It is WAY easier to touch up than lacquer. We ofen put a cover coat on the crown, and the Aura makes it much easier. We use a foam brush on the crown and move FAST.

It is expensive, so on bigger jobs the finisher primes with another latex (usually Behr). On one-offs it is nice to be able to use the Aura as a primer because the finisher doesn't have to change out his sprayer settup. The labor savings from him offsets the cost of the paint. You do have to watch out for raised grain, but it hasn't been much of an issue on his cabinets.

That said, I think Aura is overkill for rolling walls. And that one coat BS is just nonsense.

--Ben

[GaryJR]

Ben,

I agree about the one coat, especially when a professional painter will use that first coat for final inspection of imperfections.

Dark colors (depending on the color) will always require three coats.

[magna111]

I used Behr's all in one on green board a few weeks ago and was a little dissapointed. I felt like it never really hid the darkness of the green board like primer would. One coat was definately not good enough, 2 was ok, but I still wasn't as happy as if it was 1+2 coats. The other issue I thought of was the all in one paint is quite a bit more then a regular gallon, but cheaper then a gallon plus a gallon of primer. But, if you are doing 2 coats of paint your 2nd coat is with the expensive paint too.

[Happy Home]

This like most new products will be reformulated every 6 months or so until it's perfected in 2 - 3 yrs just like a lot of stuff now that was crap when it first came out.

The biggest difference in using a primer first is that it can be sanded say with some #220. The finish coat will come out much better. Finish coats don't sand well if at all because of the vinyl / solids in them.

To your question Beez, today I would insist on a primer coat, sand, then 1 - 2 coats finish. In a few years who knows ?

[Tom Bainbridge]

ive never yet been happy with products that claim to do two jobs

"dulux once" paint is one of them, another is tile adhesive/grout from the likes of topps tiles

they are all strictly DIY


on the otherhand, when tile spacers came out they were DIY ONLY.

now tilers use them but unlike the DIYers they still tweek them

[Gough50]

Customer on a recent job brought in her own painter. His estimate was for oil based priming all new woodwork and top coating with customer's choice oil or latex. He proceded to use Benjamin Moore Aura,(all-in-one water based primer/topcoat) instead of oil based primer and the grain raised all over the place. I wasn't pleased, by what the painter made my hard work turn into and the customer(late 70's woman) didn't want to get into too much of a battle with the painter, so the end results were very so-so. I wouldn't use a product like this on bare wood, without testing on several scrap pieces.

steve

If you want your woodwork to look first rate, you should really insist on oil-based primer/enamel undercoater followed by sanding with #220 and finished with 2-3 coats of a top-quality oil-based enamel like Benjamin Moore Impervo. I realize that's a tall order for those who live in VOC-restricted locales, but I haven't seen any water-borne products that come close in either looks or durability.

[tomthetoolman40]

Ben,
Dark colors (depending on the color) will always require three coats.

I used Behr the other day. I asked the lady at the paint desk if the
chocolate brown would cover white walls in one coat. She said yes. Well it was two coats to get total coverage, but not three. Also repaired areas showed less sheen after the first coat, but were gone after the second.

Other areas I painted with a mid tone, painted just the repairs first, let dry. Then painted everything with good results with a single coat. No show through. This was all brush-n-roll.

Yes the paint is more expensive than primer, but my time was less due to only one cleanup vs two.

We usually use S/W but this was spec'd by the client. One thing was all 4 gallons needed straining because they had clumps in them. This was brand new from the store.

Overall rating? So-so.

Gary, when painting dark over light, or light over dark get the primer tinted, then it just takes two coats. (99% of the time)

[j reed]

The other advantage of using primer is that the primer coat may show blemishes you might have missed - a few nail holes you forgot to fill, a spot that needed a little more sanding, some dust you might have missed wiping the piece down - all before committing to the finish coats.

[always-learning]

Sounds like the paint manufactures are constantly developing new ways to market the DIY.

Any pro painter will not use that crap. I'm talking a painter, not someone who applies paint to walls.

How true.

A true painter, most of the time, uses the inexpensive paints when available, such as this.link Economics plays a big part on why someone uses what they do. If the marketing dept. at a specific manufacturer makes someone think that the product they're buying is worth the extra $$, such as that AURA paint, then they can get their target market to buy into it. It was pure junk, as far as I was concerned, but then again, I didn't buy it. The h.o. supplies my paints, as for I'm not being held responsible for "buyer remorse" for the wrong "shade". Figured out that one a long time ago.

http://www.benjaminmoore.com/bmpsweb...ter_hiddenPage

Whenever I'm at my local BM dealer, all the "pro painters" are walking out with 5 gallon units of the super spec. Cost, being about 2/3 to 1/2 less per gallon, and the coverage being almost the same, they almost never walk out of the store with a gallon of anything. I've used the super spec, and I really don't see why they can charge almost double for the Regal series, when the only real difference I've found is that it's slightly thicker. End results are usually identical.

One thing about BM paints that I do like is that touchups can sometimes be done without recoating an entire panel, depending on finish. Otherwise, most paints require a complete panel recoating in order to not see what we here call "flashing", or dissimilar visible textured or sheen, under certain lighting conditions, of the touched up area. Not sure if that's the proper terminology for the result.

Any paint you guys are using that is able to be touched up with little or no "flashing" ?