jamb to drywall transition without casing??

[M Smith]

Architect wants no casing around door frames and no hinge knuckles visible but expects a clean uniterrupted transition to jamb. There detail actually shows the drywall lapping onto the edge of the jamb and becoming part of the "rabbetted" jamb finished with an "L" metal. I suggested kerfing the jamb edge to accept the "L" metal which is the way to do it but that creates at least a 3/8" reveal and pushes the face of door back from the plane of the wall about 5/8". This is an art gallery/studio and the doors are 3090 slab solid cores with steel stud framing !!!!!! Anyone out there ever done this???

M Smith

[Fyrzowt]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

We just installed a set of doors done like this. The hinges were completely recessed into the jamb including the barrel, done on the CNC. Drywall just butted into the jamb which was installed with a 10mm reveal proud of the drywall.
I don't have photos yet, was waiting for finish.

[Tom Bainbridge]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

no hinge knuckles, no problem, use soss hinges. you dont need cnc but it helps

SMOOTH (even?) transition, drywall to timber door linings........ not acceptable EVER

any carpenter, home owner and his wife, in the last 9,000 years could tell the architect that

timber and walls move at different rates and doors get slammed

like Fyrzowt says you need a reveal and caulk or a housing joint (rabbet) in the lining for the drywall to "dive" into to hide the movement

[Tom Bainbridge]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

if this requirement is to be met

you might have to consider changing the construction order ?

linings (and doors) before drywall ?

[M Smith]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

exactly what i told the GC and project supervisor and they acknowledged and agreed with the dissimilar mat's issue. This is a classic example of what the architects wants and draws on paper and what can be accomplished in the real world collide into a lot of wasted energy trying to explain to closed ears why it won't work the way the drew it!!!!!!

Instead of going down that road i thought i'd spend some time and energy trying to come up with a solution or at least a close alternate.

Door face must plane out with wall (drywall) surface - jamb edge cannot be proud of wall
No door casings
Paint grade doors and jambs

It can be done with drwall tape and mud- the hairline cracks appearing in a matter of months or even weeks- this is an assumption based on experience not on actually trying this methond.

I'm playing around wih the idea of trying to "bondo" the seam somehow and then mud over that?

these jambs will be 6/4 poplar with an applied stop, thus i could rabbet the back edge a good 5/8" - 3/4" to accept the drywall, maybe 11/16" deep to allow bondo and mud to flush out with jamb edge, even a slight chamfer on that rabbet cut to create more surface for the bondo to grab and feather flush with jamb edge??

No matter what i end up doing i'll definitely be getting a written release of liablilty for this job!!

M Smith

[hdrider_chgo]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

I've done hundreds, if not thousands of this type of opening. (It's some kind of an architect thing that they all seem to be into.) The simplest and most common way to do it is to skip the jambs all together. Just put in a drywall opening, use a wood header, and swing the door on Rixson pivots. Pretty simple.

If you want wood jambs, you have to have a reveal, as far as I know, to avoid drywall cracks. I've done plenty of those, too.

[Tom Bainbridge]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

agree big style on the written release

and how, may we.......... us............ "mear mortals"

ask this "god like" architect how he is going to deal with the OTHER "elephant in the room" ?

pun intended.

how does he/she intend to deal with the movement at the floor / wall interface ?


do i hear another written release being written (or already written) as i speak?

[Tom Bainbridge]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

so there is a way round it.............. altough you say you still need reveal with this particular architect's requirements (he wants door linings)

is a rixson pivot like the most ancient type of door hinge, probably mesopetainian

a pivot top and bottom (one in the floor and one in the head) ?


great method UNTIL the architect wants door stops........... 9000 years ago, less 2 days, the lady of the house demanded door casing

because of the differnetial material movement and her hormonal teenagers and bad ass homicidal maniac "killing athenians is my job" husband slamming doors

[dave_k]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

If you want wood jambs, you have to have a reveal, as far as I know, to avoid drywall cracks. I've done plenty of those, too.

I've done them with no reveal before. We use a plastic half bead, the kind with the tear away masking strip on the drywall and it butts into the frame. When it's painted I come back and seal the drywall with a bead of translucent silicone. If you do a good job with the sealant it looks great. Can't speak for longivity but it looks great til the cheque clears ;-)

A couple of pitfalls:

No matter how good it looks on the mockup the thickness of the drywall assembly will vary 1/2" bigger than the sum of the materials due to screw heads etc so you have to make the frame 1/2" bigger than drywall assembly just to get it to flush up to the frame.

Obviously you're going to be using metal framing to get a straight wall. The drywaller has to be meticulous building the wall to get it exactly plumb and true and not to get bows into the wall by boarding and screwing off one side before drywalling the other side.

8/4 frames look best proportionally when building these frames, 6/4 are passable by themselves but look good with a shadow reveal. 4/4 look flimsey, are flimsey and the outer most hinge screws can poke through and be visible if you use a shadow reveal.

[Gary Katz]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

Ditto Dave K,
We've done hundreds of them, too, with Soss hinges mostly. Didn't start using Rixson hinges for those openings until five or ten years ago. Too bad. The Rixsons are much easier. Stop is not a problem. There's always door stop on a hinged jamb anyway. The head doesn't need stop. Especially when it's at 9 ft. If they want the sound privacy that the stop provides, you can cut a cove into the hinge jamb and hang the door so it pivots inside the cove.

But if you have to use hinges, we've rabbeted the jambs for drywall mud--only 1/8 in. or so, and had the drywallers tape right over the rabbet to the edge of the jamb, then used flexible caulking to seal the joint and prevent cracks...for a while, as Dave said.

It's a pretty common detail in commercial buildings, and some homes, too.
Gary

[hdrider_chgo]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

If they want the sound privacy that the stop provides, you can cut a cove into the hinge jamb and hang the door so it pivots inside the cove.

Generally, the way we've done soundproofing is rabbet in a "fuzzy" strip along the door edges.

If you want to do wood jambs, don't rule out a reveal between the drywall and wood. If done properly, it can look pretty sharp and engineer out a lot of problems at the same time.

[Tom Bainbridge]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

ive learned a thing or two, but probably wont be doing it any time soon, local building practice and builders............

we dont do much drywall (as you understand it) in homes, which is where i do most of my work

here the plasterboard mostly gets a plaster skim coat (not drywall skim) and its never even, sanding down high spots on plaster is possible but it isnt a realistic option

skim coat plaster is a finish not a filler, sanding the face exposes the "aggregate"

[dave_k]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

ive learned a thing or two, but probably wont be doing it any time soon, local building practice and builders............

You don't see this style of door frame very often in homes around here. Maybe in something very contemporary. It's a commercial / architect fetish thing.
I have them in my basement office area though. I also have a purple rubber floor but I wanted it to look like an office.

[Tom Bainbridge]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

although i have a good idea how it looks, in my head

has anybody got a photo so i can see ?

[Fyrzowt]

Re: jamb to drywall transition without casing??

I may be able to get a photo this week of our current job.