Better technique for leveling toilets

**always-learning** · 12-08-2009, 11:11 PM

Any of you guys have a better idea to level a toilet ?

When I do tile, I make sure that the floor, especially near the toilet, is completely flat and level. Nothing irritates me more than to spend all of that time ensuring a flat surface to install the toilet, and to buy a $550 toilet that's not level.

Yeah, I could have made a stink about the toilet, and sent it back, but with the amount of time lost on this job, I had to finish it up. I don't use a wax seal, so I'm not afraid of any leaks. I had a plumber who used plaster of paris or some other kind of quick set material like that, but I was taught to level them out this way.

Any product out there that works better than this ?

Thanks.

**BeachBoy** · 12-08-2009, 11:52 PM

Well, Home Depot and probably everyone else carries plastic shims in the plumbing department that are designed and intended for leveling toilets.

I have to agree, I've always wondered if there wasn't a better way... Something like turn the base upside down, fill the cavity with plaster, level it, let it set, then set the toilet on a thin bed of wet plaster.

The problem with sealing the base is that if a leak develops, water can't find it's way out so the homeowner won't know until the floor is completely rotted out....

**always-learning** · 12-08-2009, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by BeachBoy

The problem with sealing the base is that if a leak develops, water can't find it's way out so the homeowner won't know until the floor is completely rotted out....

This is required by our local inspector (toilet sealed to floor), but I never caulk the rear of the toilet towards the back wall. I make sure that the flange is caulked to the tile. This ensures that when (or if) a leak occurs, that it runs out the BACK of the toilet onto the tile, HOPEFULLY that someone will notice it.

**SteveC** · 12-09-2009, 06:33 AM

Some toilets I have removed from old homes were shimmed with sheet lead and set in plaster.
FWIW had trouble with a Kohler toilet a HO provided from HD. After the 3rd one (finally wasn't cracked), plumber had difficulty time leveling tank and bowl. A call to Kohler found specs allow + or - 1/4"

**always-learning** · 12-09-2009, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by SteveC

Some toilets I have removed from old homes were shimmed with sheet lead and set in plaster.
FWIW had trouble with a Kohler toilet a HO provided from HD. After the 3rd one (finally wasn't cracked), plumber had difficulty time leveling tank and bowl. A call to Kohler found specs allow + or - 1/4"

That's asinine. 1/4" ? This toilet pictured was only out 1/8" but still enough to be annoying.

Bought it from Build.com

**bkerley** · 12-09-2009, 08:00 AM

We always used plastic shims and the aforementioned plaster of paris mixture. If I remember correctly it was half portland and half plaster. My dad called it dynamite. There are several commercially produced products out there like Thorogrip.

**SteveC** · 12-09-2009, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by always-learning

That's asinine. 1/4" ? This toilet pictured was only out 1/8" but still enough to be annoying.

Bought it from Build.com

I agree, tank had to be set 1/2 out of plumb front to back, any straighter and it leaked at the doughnut. HO got what he paid for.

**GaryJR** · 12-09-2009, 09:42 AM

"I don't use a wax seal, so I'm not afraid of any leaks" ??????

Floors are installed flat and level. Plumber installs using same grout as floor. Always uses wax seal and grouts completely around toilet bottom flange. Grout is sealed when floor grout is sealed.

mix fast setting thinset with grout if toilet needs to be used that day.

Toilets installed properly (that includes closetbend flange at proper height) will never leak.

Install everything within tolerance and you will not be disappointed.

**Greg Di** · 12-09-2009, 09:44 AM

I've never heard of NOT using a wax seal. Why wouldn't you?

**bkerley** · 12-09-2009, 09:53 AM

BTW - the wax ring isn't really intended as a water barrier as much as a vapor barrier to keep the sewage gases out.

**always-learning** · 12-09-2009, 12:23 PM

Not use a wax seal ???

Why NOT ????

Because they suck..... IMO.

I installled a TOTO toilet, which came with this funky plastic gizmo that bolted to the floor. On the top was a rubber o-ring that sealed the gas from coming up from the waste. Freaking thing was awesome... and clean. I had to pop the toilet back off, for another reason, and it was nothing to do and didn't require gloves, or a new seal....

I found this:

http://www.westsidewholesale.com/toi...=2&cvsfp=11231

I WILL NEVER EVER use another wax seal to seal a toilet. Ever.....

**SteveC** · 12-09-2009, 02:22 PM

Just to clarify.
" I never use a wax seal" was meant to be "I never use a wax seal, I use a more modern type seal"
Yes ?

**SteveC** · 12-09-2009, 02:28 PM

FWIW Toto funky plastic gizmo
http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/T.../55151/Cat/817

**m beezo** · 12-09-2009, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by SteveC

FWIW Toto funky plastic gizmo
http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/T.../55151/Cat/817

$60 is a lot for a plumber's wax ring or seal. You could buy a case of the wax rings for that price.

I do not like the wood shims for leveling. Have always been afraid of them soaking up water or urine if it gets under the caulk/grout that you put around the base. Also have wondered about how they might compress a bit and the the toilet might not fell secure.

Next time you tear out a lead drain line save the lead and smash it flat for shims. A fold or two and you can have it just about any thickness you need. Or use the plastic ones. Plaster of paris under the toilet has been used in the past. I have found it under toilets before.

**SteveC** · 12-09-2009, 04:24 PM

Sure is Beez
Toto uses this system so one toilet will fit a 10",12" or 14" rough.

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